rthstewart (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rthstewart) wrote2011-07-20 11:47 am
rthstewart) wrote2011-07-20 11:47 am
Cannons blowing up ships and other ramblings, anon reviewers, etc.
Enough’s enough.
The previous entry on Chapter 12 has exploded so at the risk of self-aggrandizement, I’m just going to move some of that discussion and such over here to a new entry.
Neiman and Flavia, thanks for the reviews and Nemain it’s great to hear from you again. Flavia, as the comments to the previous entry indicate, you are not alone in your defense of Edmund. They are both to blame; I’m just annoyed with him that he did not explain to Morgan why he’s all angsty about Seth/brother/betraying family for material gain.
If you missed it, here is where you can read how my arm was twisted, courtesty of H., Clio, Min and Linnea into writing comment fic that ships Susan and the Director. His name is Rafe, by the way, decided after the fact. I have now written something near the end of a relationship, again. And, if/when I do write more, it’s going to be called Management Directive. It does explore a bit about where the Susan's interest in Rabadash might have come and so I'm pretty happy that I got nudged in that direction. Thank you friends!
I’ve been following something going on over in the Narnia ff.net site involving Antaprate I’ve got some issues with what she is doing, namely picking up a fic she dislikes and mocking it in a remix that slays the (invariably) female OC. It’s not the, OMG you are SO MEAN that bothers me so much, though what she does is mean. What bothers me more is the certain sense of moral righteousness that I see in the Narnia fic writers, reviewers, and certain communities. In her profile, Antaprate writes this about canon-compliance:
Now this bit about the relationships and such I really disagree with, for many, many reasons, including this distressing habit in Narnia fandom where authors claim that they are the canon keepers channeling Lewis’ intent and that anything that departs from this vision is AU, non-canon compliant, and by implication, inferior, etc. I wonder if it may come from the strong component of the fandom that is Evangelical Christian.They [edited as too over-broad] Some who adhere to this view may, I theorize, read the Bible literally and so too read Lewis literally. Regardless, Antaprate takes a very, very narrow reading of “canon” that is common in this fandom but not so prevalent in others.
I would just point out that just because it is not mentioned in the text, does not mean it is not there. It just means it’s not mentioned, for whatever reason. I hope that she'll discuss this further, but she disables PMs so there's no way to interact with her unless she interacts with you.
To that end, with all the discussion of Morgan and Director Linch and Tebbitt, – all OCs – it makes me thoughtful when I consider Anaprate’s comment above. I’m not defending or arguing the canon-compliance point, nor do I particularly care if someone calls a story I write as non-canon compliant or otherwise. I’m routinely accused of perverting Lewis intent due to the background sexual content anyway, so at this point, whatever. And so, on to the subject of romance, ships, and my OCs wandering about the landscape, come on in, the muddied, non canon-compliant water’s fine.
H., Linea, Clio, Indil, Min, and Autumnia in the previous entry and some PMs have been discussing whether Susan had a “true love,” in Narnia or otherwise, and also what the nature of her previous relationships, other than Rabadash. Given the Colonel’s assessment of her, her actions with Tebbitt, and her conversations with Peter, she’s obviously had something. I’ve now stuck Director Linch into the mix, which makes for some interesting comparisons to Rabadash and Tebbitt and how her relationship with Tebbitt has developed and why.
Indil, Clio, and others, noted that so far, Peter is the odd man out, with only his one true love with the Cheetah and their little family group. I’ve promised to get to that, eventually, in AW. H. pointed out that I’ve mentioned how Peter doesn’t really, emotionally, have room for a romantic relationship, in much the same way that Asim has room only for war and God. I do see Peter’s loving of so many things so deeply and so well, and his hierarchy of values making it difficult, for all that he really wants it, to fit a relationship with a single person into the mix.
And I don’t ship Asim with anyone, even if he is very fond of dark chocolate.
In answer to some questions, I’ve not, by the way, ruled out same sex (though non-incestual) relationships, particular with those indiscriminate Dryads. I’ve just not written it. I’ve had in my head a discussion that Richard will have with Peter about the anecdotal observations made in the bush:
This has also resulted in speculation that perhaps one reason Lucy and Edmund have (ultimately successful) relationships as compared to Susan and Peter is the confounding influence of the sex of their Guards. Autumnia also speculated that this might be because Lucy and Edmund are younger and feel freer to pursue these interests.
There was lots of discussion Edmund and Morgan’s poor communication, whether Edmund really is to blame, and how they are going to patch things up when I get around to the next section. I had thought to have Sallowpad tell Morgan about Edmund’s betrayal to the Witch here and how it is confounding his behavior now. That, however, is something that needs to come from him. I’d wanted to do a segment of Morgan in Narnia being all Banker like with Calormenes and such (oh gawd, more OCs) but now I’ll move that to Archenland with Edmund going to see her when she and Lucy return from their audit of the silver mine.
The previous entry on Chapter 12 has exploded so at the risk of self-aggrandizement, I’m just going to move some of that discussion and such over here to a new entry.
Neiman and Flavia, thanks for the reviews and Nemain it’s great to hear from you again. Flavia, as the comments to the previous entry indicate, you are not alone in your defense of Edmund. They are both to blame; I’m just annoyed with him that he did not explain to Morgan why he’s all angsty about Seth/brother/betraying family for material gain.
If you missed it, here is where you can read how my arm was twisted, courtesty of H., Clio, Min and Linnea into writing comment fic that ships Susan and the Director. His name is Rafe, by the way, decided after the fact. I have now written something near the end of a relationship, again. And, if/when I do write more, it’s going to be called Management Directive. It does explore a bit about where the Susan's interest in Rabadash might have come and so I'm pretty happy that I got nudged in that direction. Thank you friends!
I’ve been following something going on over in the Narnia ff.net site involving Antaprate I’ve got some issues with what she is doing, namely picking up a fic she dislikes and mocking it in a remix that slays the (invariably) female OC. It’s not the, OMG you are SO MEAN that bothers me so much, though what she does is mean. What bothers me more is the certain sense of moral righteousness that I see in the Narnia fic writers, reviewers, and certain communities. In her profile, Antaprate writes this about canon-compliance:
Just because a fanfic has no OCs in it does not mean it is a canon-compliant fic. If a fic contradicts canon in any way, it is not a canon-compliant fic. This includes having any Pevensies stay in Narnia after PC, Peter and/or Susan returning to Narnia after leaving in PC, Lucy and/or Edmund returning after DT, any pairings (except married couples) other than Cor/Aravis and Caspian/Ramandu’s daughter, Mr. Pevensie being killed in the war, any Pevensie dying, the White Witch returning after LWW, etc. Any of these are, by default, AU fics because they contradict canon.
In sum: no OCs =/= canon-compliant necessarily.
In sum: no OCs =/= canon-compliant necessarily.
Now this bit about the relationships and such I really disagree with, for many, many reasons, including this distressing habit in Narnia fandom where authors claim that they are the canon keepers channeling Lewis’ intent and that anything that departs from this vision is AU, non-canon compliant, and by implication, inferior, etc. I wonder if it may come from the strong component of the fandom that is Evangelical Christian.
I would just point out that just because it is not mentioned in the text, does not mean it is not there. It just means it’s not mentioned, for whatever reason. I hope that she'll discuss this further, but she disables PMs so there's no way to interact with her unless she interacts with you.
To that end, with all the discussion of Morgan and Director Linch and Tebbitt, – all OCs – it makes me thoughtful when I consider Anaprate’s comment above. I’m not defending or arguing the canon-compliance point, nor do I particularly care if someone calls a story I write as non-canon compliant or otherwise. I’m routinely accused of perverting Lewis intent due to the background sexual content anyway, so at this point, whatever. And so, on to the subject of romance, ships, and my OCs wandering about the landscape, come on in, the muddied, non canon-compliant water’s fine.
H., Linea, Clio, Indil, Min, and Autumnia in the previous entry and some PMs have been discussing whether Susan had a “true love,” in Narnia or otherwise, and also what the nature of her previous relationships, other than Rabadash. Given the Colonel’s assessment of her, her actions with Tebbitt, and her conversations with Peter, she’s obviously had something. I’ve now stuck Director Linch into the mix, which makes for some interesting comparisons to Rabadash and Tebbitt and how her relationship with Tebbitt has developed and why.
Indil, Clio, and others, noted that so far, Peter is the odd man out, with only his one true love with the Cheetah and their little family group. I’ve promised to get to that, eventually, in AW. H. pointed out that I’ve mentioned how Peter doesn’t really, emotionally, have room for a romantic relationship, in much the same way that Asim has room only for war and God. I do see Peter’s loving of so many things so deeply and so well, and his hierarchy of values making it difficult, for all that he really wants it, to fit a relationship with a single person into the mix.
And I don’t ship Asim with anyone, even if he is very fond of dark chocolate.
In answer to some questions, I’ve not, by the way, ruled out same sex (though non-incestual) relationships, particular with those indiscriminate Dryads. I’ve just not written it. I’ve had in my head a discussion that Richard will have with Peter about the anecdotal observations made in the bush:
“Richard, is that observer bias, I detect? Or are you actually embarrassed? ”
“Well no,” Richard stammered, feeling oddly discomfited at the man’s composure. “But I do know that presenting a paper on observations of male giraffes’ sexual couplings would likely have me arrested on indecency grounds!”
“Well no,” Richard stammered, feeling oddly discomfited at the man’s composure. “But I do know that presenting a paper on observations of male giraffes’ sexual couplings would likely have me arrested on indecency grounds!”
This has also resulted in speculation that perhaps one reason Lucy and Edmund have (ultimately successful) relationships as compared to Susan and Peter is the confounding influence of the sex of their Guards. Autumnia also speculated that this might be because Lucy and Edmund are younger and feel freer to pursue these interests.
There was lots of discussion Edmund and Morgan’s poor communication, whether Edmund really is to blame, and how they are going to patch things up when I get around to the next section. I had thought to have Sallowpad tell Morgan about Edmund’s betrayal to the Witch here and how it is confounding his behavior now. That, however, is something that needs to come from him. I’d wanted to do a segment of Morgan in Narnia being all Banker like with Calormenes and such (oh gawd, more OCs) but now I’ll move that to Archenland with Edmund going to see her when she and Lucy return from their audit of the silver mine.
“Why isn’t Morgan coming to Narnia?” Edmund asked. “She’s completed the Code, she needs to make her report on the mine. Why not do that here rather than in Anvard?”
Peter adjusted his aching leg on the stool and restrained the urge to throw a heavy paperweight at his brother. “Perhaps because she wishes to avoid an awkward meeting with you.”
“Why would it be awkward?”
“I am not going to mediate your relationship, Edmund.”
“What is there to mediate?” Edmund countered. “I was not aware there was a problem.” He paused and then added lamely, “And it’s not a relationship.”
The snapping of Crow beaks and Jalur’s growl signaled the profound disagreement.
OK, stopping now. Peter adjusted his aching leg on the stool and restrained the urge to throw a heavy paperweight at his brother. “Perhaps because she wishes to avoid an awkward meeting with you.”
“Why would it be awkward?”
“I am not going to mediate your relationship, Edmund.”
“What is there to mediate?” Edmund countered. “I was not aware there was a problem.” He paused and then added lamely, “And it’s not a relationship.”
The snapping of Crow beaks and Jalur’s growl signaled the profound disagreement.
no subject
I mean, I too take a very very conservative view of canon (I mean. To the point that I technically don't consider, say, the three-year gap between PC and VDT to be canon because Caspian might be lying. That he says it is canon. That he's telling the truth is...plausible). But I don't go around freaking out when people expand on canon in fic. You have to; otherwise it wouldn't be fic, would it? It would have to be canon, boring, yawn.
tl;dr: Stories where Susan is on the train are either AU (and I adore AUs, my favorite fic of mine is AU) or Didn't Do The Reading, but stories where she bought the ticket are totally canon-compliant. We didn't see it =/= it didn't happen.
Loooool slayers, also. I'm afraid to click on one, I think my eyes might burn.
I am amused by your last sentence.
(Anonymous) 2011-07-22 03:56 am (UTC)(link)Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
There are a lot of Narnia fics and very little time; ff.net in general has so-so quality. I think it's more worth my while to read wonderful excellent fics than to read someone's takedown of a fic she didn't even like.
Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
I don't get it, and I certainly don't get you ripping apart the Mary Sue stories you find oh so painful with a rather painful Mary Sue of your own. But hey, to each their own.
Fanfic's a matter of taste for the most part. The things you like, not everyone else does. Yes, there are things you can complain about objectively (bad spelling, grammar, plotholes, etc.), but the things you're targeting in your stories are very subjective, as all matters of taste are.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to rip apart the things that other people like - I mean, we all have come across crappy stories, but most of us behave like adults and just keep going - or why you give these fics so much power that they enrage you, and you just can't stop yourself from writing these Slayer fics in response. A more sensible reaction would seem to be to find and read fics you like, and write the kind of fic you enjoy.
However, if this is how you enjoy fandom - by reading stuff that pisses you off and writing mean, angry Mary Sue fic in response, by all means, have at it. We're all here in fandom to enjoy ourselves, and if this is what you enjoy - being nasty about fic and getting defensive when called on it - well, I may think you're wasting your time and misunderstanding the concept of fun, but to each their own.
Just like I don't have to waste my time reading crappy "girl falls into Narnia" Mary Sue fic, I don't have to waste my time reading ragey "Mary Sue destroys other Mary Sues" fic either, especially when there are much better fics out there to fill my reading hours.
But good luck to you and your Mary Sue on your quest to stop other Mary Sues!
Re: I am amused by your last sentence.
WTF? Did I step in a time machine and get out in 1996?
Okay, it is a favor, just not in the way they think.
At least the Wicked X-Witches never created their own Mary Sues? ;)
Re: WTF? Did I step in a time machine and get out in 1996?
For me? It was the Who Luke Should Marry AOL Boards in 1995. I'm embarrassed to say that I participated in writing an MST3K for a fic that fortunately never saw the light of day -- the parody that is. The original fic involved Luke Skywalker's red silk boxer shorts and Mara Jade's damp panties. Ultimately I decided the better solution was to resolve to never never write a fic involving the words "pressing manhood."
Re: WTF? Did I step in a time machine and get out in 1996?
:: dances::
no subject
no subject
Ha, ha.
(Anonymous) 2011-07-22 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)