rthstewart (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rthstewart) wrote2011-07-20 11:47 am
rthstewart) wrote2011-07-20 11:47 am
Cannons blowing up ships and other ramblings, anon reviewers, etc.
Enough’s enough.
The previous entry on Chapter 12 has exploded so at the risk of self-aggrandizement, I’m just going to move some of that discussion and such over here to a new entry.
Neiman and Flavia, thanks for the reviews and Nemain it’s great to hear from you again. Flavia, as the comments to the previous entry indicate, you are not alone in your defense of Edmund. They are both to blame; I’m just annoyed with him that he did not explain to Morgan why he’s all angsty about Seth/brother/betraying family for material gain.
If you missed it, here is where you can read how my arm was twisted, courtesty of H., Clio, Min and Linnea into writing comment fic that ships Susan and the Director. His name is Rafe, by the way, decided after the fact. I have now written something near the end of a relationship, again. And, if/when I do write more, it’s going to be called Management Directive. It does explore a bit about where the Susan's interest in Rabadash might have come and so I'm pretty happy that I got nudged in that direction. Thank you friends!
I’ve been following something going on over in the Narnia ff.net site involving Antaprate I’ve got some issues with what she is doing, namely picking up a fic she dislikes and mocking it in a remix that slays the (invariably) female OC. It’s not the, OMG you are SO MEAN that bothers me so much, though what she does is mean. What bothers me more is the certain sense of moral righteousness that I see in the Narnia fic writers, reviewers, and certain communities. In her profile, Antaprate writes this about canon-compliance:
Now this bit about the relationships and such I really disagree with, for many, many reasons, including this distressing habit in Narnia fandom where authors claim that they are the canon keepers channeling Lewis’ intent and that anything that departs from this vision is AU, non-canon compliant, and by implication, inferior, etc. I wonder if it may come from the strong component of the fandom that is Evangelical Christian.They [edited as too over-broad] Some who adhere to this view may, I theorize, read the Bible literally and so too read Lewis literally. Regardless, Antaprate takes a very, very narrow reading of “canon” that is common in this fandom but not so prevalent in others.
I would just point out that just because it is not mentioned in the text, does not mean it is not there. It just means it’s not mentioned, for whatever reason. I hope that she'll discuss this further, but she disables PMs so there's no way to interact with her unless she interacts with you.
To that end, with all the discussion of Morgan and Director Linch and Tebbitt, – all OCs – it makes me thoughtful when I consider Anaprate’s comment above. I’m not defending or arguing the canon-compliance point, nor do I particularly care if someone calls a story I write as non-canon compliant or otherwise. I’m routinely accused of perverting Lewis intent due to the background sexual content anyway, so at this point, whatever. And so, on to the subject of romance, ships, and my OCs wandering about the landscape, come on in, the muddied, non canon-compliant water’s fine.
H., Linea, Clio, Indil, Min, and Autumnia in the previous entry and some PMs have been discussing whether Susan had a “true love,” in Narnia or otherwise, and also what the nature of her previous relationships, other than Rabadash. Given the Colonel’s assessment of her, her actions with Tebbitt, and her conversations with Peter, she’s obviously had something. I’ve now stuck Director Linch into the mix, which makes for some interesting comparisons to Rabadash and Tebbitt and how her relationship with Tebbitt has developed and why.
Indil, Clio, and others, noted that so far, Peter is the odd man out, with only his one true love with the Cheetah and their little family group. I’ve promised to get to that, eventually, in AW. H. pointed out that I’ve mentioned how Peter doesn’t really, emotionally, have room for a romantic relationship, in much the same way that Asim has room only for war and God. I do see Peter’s loving of so many things so deeply and so well, and his hierarchy of values making it difficult, for all that he really wants it, to fit a relationship with a single person into the mix.
And I don’t ship Asim with anyone, even if he is very fond of dark chocolate.
In answer to some questions, I’ve not, by the way, ruled out same sex (though non-incestual) relationships, particular with those indiscriminate Dryads. I’ve just not written it. I’ve had in my head a discussion that Richard will have with Peter about the anecdotal observations made in the bush:
This has also resulted in speculation that perhaps one reason Lucy and Edmund have (ultimately successful) relationships as compared to Susan and Peter is the confounding influence of the sex of their Guards. Autumnia also speculated that this might be because Lucy and Edmund are younger and feel freer to pursue these interests.
There was lots of discussion Edmund and Morgan’s poor communication, whether Edmund really is to blame, and how they are going to patch things up when I get around to the next section. I had thought to have Sallowpad tell Morgan about Edmund’s betrayal to the Witch here and how it is confounding his behavior now. That, however, is something that needs to come from him. I’d wanted to do a segment of Morgan in Narnia being all Banker like with Calormenes and such (oh gawd, more OCs) but now I’ll move that to Archenland with Edmund going to see her when she and Lucy return from their audit of the silver mine.
The previous entry on Chapter 12 has exploded so at the risk of self-aggrandizement, I’m just going to move some of that discussion and such over here to a new entry.
Neiman and Flavia, thanks for the reviews and Nemain it’s great to hear from you again. Flavia, as the comments to the previous entry indicate, you are not alone in your defense of Edmund. They are both to blame; I’m just annoyed with him that he did not explain to Morgan why he’s all angsty about Seth/brother/betraying family for material gain.
If you missed it, here is where you can read how my arm was twisted, courtesty of H., Clio, Min and Linnea into writing comment fic that ships Susan and the Director. His name is Rafe, by the way, decided after the fact. I have now written something near the end of a relationship, again. And, if/when I do write more, it’s going to be called Management Directive. It does explore a bit about where the Susan's interest in Rabadash might have come and so I'm pretty happy that I got nudged in that direction. Thank you friends!
I’ve been following something going on over in the Narnia ff.net site involving Antaprate I’ve got some issues with what she is doing, namely picking up a fic she dislikes and mocking it in a remix that slays the (invariably) female OC. It’s not the, OMG you are SO MEAN that bothers me so much, though what she does is mean. What bothers me more is the certain sense of moral righteousness that I see in the Narnia fic writers, reviewers, and certain communities. In her profile, Antaprate writes this about canon-compliance:
Just because a fanfic has no OCs in it does not mean it is a canon-compliant fic. If a fic contradicts canon in any way, it is not a canon-compliant fic. This includes having any Pevensies stay in Narnia after PC, Peter and/or Susan returning to Narnia after leaving in PC, Lucy and/or Edmund returning after DT, any pairings (except married couples) other than Cor/Aravis and Caspian/Ramandu’s daughter, Mr. Pevensie being killed in the war, any Pevensie dying, the White Witch returning after LWW, etc. Any of these are, by default, AU fics because they contradict canon.
In sum: no OCs =/= canon-compliant necessarily.
In sum: no OCs =/= canon-compliant necessarily.
Now this bit about the relationships and such I really disagree with, for many, many reasons, including this distressing habit in Narnia fandom where authors claim that they are the canon keepers channeling Lewis’ intent and that anything that departs from this vision is AU, non-canon compliant, and by implication, inferior, etc. I wonder if it may come from the strong component of the fandom that is Evangelical Christian.
I would just point out that just because it is not mentioned in the text, does not mean it is not there. It just means it’s not mentioned, for whatever reason. I hope that she'll discuss this further, but she disables PMs so there's no way to interact with her unless she interacts with you.
To that end, with all the discussion of Morgan and Director Linch and Tebbitt, – all OCs – it makes me thoughtful when I consider Anaprate’s comment above. I’m not defending or arguing the canon-compliance point, nor do I particularly care if someone calls a story I write as non-canon compliant or otherwise. I’m routinely accused of perverting Lewis intent due to the background sexual content anyway, so at this point, whatever. And so, on to the subject of romance, ships, and my OCs wandering about the landscape, come on in, the muddied, non canon-compliant water’s fine.
H., Linea, Clio, Indil, Min, and Autumnia in the previous entry and some PMs have been discussing whether Susan had a “true love,” in Narnia or otherwise, and also what the nature of her previous relationships, other than Rabadash. Given the Colonel’s assessment of her, her actions with Tebbitt, and her conversations with Peter, she’s obviously had something. I’ve now stuck Director Linch into the mix, which makes for some interesting comparisons to Rabadash and Tebbitt and how her relationship with Tebbitt has developed and why.
Indil, Clio, and others, noted that so far, Peter is the odd man out, with only his one true love with the Cheetah and their little family group. I’ve promised to get to that, eventually, in AW. H. pointed out that I’ve mentioned how Peter doesn’t really, emotionally, have room for a romantic relationship, in much the same way that Asim has room only for war and God. I do see Peter’s loving of so many things so deeply and so well, and his hierarchy of values making it difficult, for all that he really wants it, to fit a relationship with a single person into the mix.
And I don’t ship Asim with anyone, even if he is very fond of dark chocolate.
In answer to some questions, I’ve not, by the way, ruled out same sex (though non-incestual) relationships, particular with those indiscriminate Dryads. I’ve just not written it. I’ve had in my head a discussion that Richard will have with Peter about the anecdotal observations made in the bush:
“Richard, is that observer bias, I detect? Or are you actually embarrassed? ”
“Well no,” Richard stammered, feeling oddly discomfited at the man’s composure. “But I do know that presenting a paper on observations of male giraffes’ sexual couplings would likely have me arrested on indecency grounds!”
“Well no,” Richard stammered, feeling oddly discomfited at the man’s composure. “But I do know that presenting a paper on observations of male giraffes’ sexual couplings would likely have me arrested on indecency grounds!”
This has also resulted in speculation that perhaps one reason Lucy and Edmund have (ultimately successful) relationships as compared to Susan and Peter is the confounding influence of the sex of their Guards. Autumnia also speculated that this might be because Lucy and Edmund are younger and feel freer to pursue these interests.
There was lots of discussion Edmund and Morgan’s poor communication, whether Edmund really is to blame, and how they are going to patch things up when I get around to the next section. I had thought to have Sallowpad tell Morgan about Edmund’s betrayal to the Witch here and how it is confounding his behavior now. That, however, is something that needs to come from him. I’d wanted to do a segment of Morgan in Narnia being all Banker like with Calormenes and such (oh gawd, more OCs) but now I’ll move that to Archenland with Edmund going to see her when she and Lucy return from their audit of the silver mine.
“Why isn’t Morgan coming to Narnia?” Edmund asked. “She’s completed the Code, she needs to make her report on the mine. Why not do that here rather than in Anvard?”
Peter adjusted his aching leg on the stool and restrained the urge to throw a heavy paperweight at his brother. “Perhaps because she wishes to avoid an awkward meeting with you.”
“Why would it be awkward?”
“I am not going to mediate your relationship, Edmund.”
“What is there to mediate?” Edmund countered. “I was not aware there was a problem.” He paused and then added lamely, “And it’s not a relationship.”
The snapping of Crow beaks and Jalur’s growl signaled the profound disagreement.
OK, stopping now. Peter adjusted his aching leg on the stool and restrained the urge to throw a heavy paperweight at his brother. “Perhaps because she wishes to avoid an awkward meeting with you.”
“Why would it be awkward?”
“I am not going to mediate your relationship, Edmund.”
“What is there to mediate?” Edmund countered. “I was not aware there was a problem.” He paused and then added lamely, “And it’s not a relationship.”
The snapping of Crow beaks and Jalur’s growl signaled the profound disagreement.
no subject
In general, I agree with those of you who are all for creating new characters, situations, and episodes for a particular fandom. There is such a thing as cultural relevance, and I think one of the spectacular functions of fan fiction is that it does keep many, many creative producitons culturally relevant, for much longer than they might otherwise be.
As a complete scholarly side note: This is why, when Harry Potter first blew up issues of fandom and copyright and creative license, etc., Jo Rowling, Scholastic, and Warner Borthers ultimately decided to let a massive fandom evolve without prosecution. First of all, it's bad PR to prosecute fans who are promoting your product. Second, the larger a fandom is and the longer it proliferates, the longer a work remains culturally important and the more potential it has to generate profits. End of side note.
All of that said: Regarging Narnia in particular, why should "canon" be regarded as what Lewis wrote, and nothing more? Even textual scholars (that is to say, literary scholars who look for meaning in the text and only the text) are still debating to this day precisely what Lewis "meant," and not just in terms of Narnia, but in terms of all of his religious philosophy. Add historical context or different forms of religious dogma in there and the meaning becomes even more debatable and complicated. In additon, reader response theory tells us that readers interpret, appropriate, and remember texts in different ways, so if you are from the school that says meaning is made by the reader, having one "canon" interpretation is literally impossible. Even in the best of fictional criticism worlds, one can only really take "canon" to mean the events and relationships that are laid out in the book. "Canon" does NOT EXCLUDE anything that may have happened off the page or out of the scene. Even AU stories may be canon to a point, or may be complete reimaginings.
This discussion is fascinating - and I think it has forced me to the conclusion that I have to catch up on my reading!
no subject
I don't tend to look overmuch at current scholarship on Lewis, but I find it very interesting and reassuring that the debate of his meanings continues. As Elouise says, his work is so complex and layered, it's difficult to pull any single thing from it.
no subject
I have to pay a great deal of attention to reader response theory in my professional work, and it fascinates me. While strict textual interpretation usually annoys me to no end (I can't understand how anyone can find meaning without historical and social context), I have to at least acknowledge its existence. And I do. I just don't agree with it most of the time. ;)
I am not up to date on current Lewis scholarship, either, but I stay aware of it enough to know that there is still nothing approaching a consensus about his fiction, philosophy, or theology.
As a side note, there's a fascinating book by Michael Ward called "Planet Narnia: The Seven Heavens in the Imagination of C.S. Lewis" that I hope to read someday. Ward argues that Lewis took medieval and renaissance ideas about astronomy and heaven (there were, during those periods, thought to be only seven planets) in order to construct the seven books of the Chronicles. It looks amazing, and it's gotten incredible reviews.
no subject
no subject
Textual interpretation is so interesting as I've smacked up against it so many times in this fandom. In my RL, what parties intended can be important but even in U.S. Supreme Court cases interpreting federal laws, the Justices take the approach that whatever might have been intended, in the first instance you look to what is on the page. Discerning intent is, to paraphrase, "shrouded in considerable smog."