Cannons blowing up ships and other ramblings, anon reviewers, etc.

[rthstewart]

Enough’s enough.
The previous entry on Chapter 12 has exploded so at the risk of self-aggrandizement, I’m just going to move some of that discussion and such over here to a new entry. 

Neiman and Flavia, thanks for the reviews and Nemain it’s great to hear from you again. Flavia, as the comments to the previous entry indicate, you are not alone in your defense of Edmund. They are both to blame; I’m just annoyed with him that he did not explain to Morgan why he’s all angsty about Seth/brother/betraying family for material gain.

If you missed it, here is where you can read how my arm was twisted, courtesty of H., Clio, Min and Linnea into writing comment fic that ships Susan and the Director. His name is Rafe, by the way, decided after the fact. I have now written something near the end of a relationship, again. And, if/when I do write more, it’s going to be called Management Directive. It does explore a bit about where the Susan's interest in Rabadash might have come and so I'm pretty  happy that I got nudged in that direction.  Thank you friends!

I’ve been following something going on over in the Narnia ff.net site involving Antaprate I’ve got some issues with what she is doing, namely picking up a fic she dislikes and mocking it in a remix that slays the (invariably) female OC. It’s not the, OMG you are SO MEAN that bothers me so much, though what she does is mean. What bothers me more is the certain sense of moral righteousness that I see in the Narnia fic writers, reviewers, and certain communities. In her profile, Antaprate writes this about canon-compliance:

Just because a fanfic has no OCs in it does not mean it is a canon-compliant fic. If a fic contradicts canon in any way, it is not a canon-compliant fic. This includes having any Pevensies stay in Narnia after PC, Peter and/or Susan returning to Narnia after leaving in PC, Lucy and/or Edmund returning after DT, any pairings (except married couples) other than Cor/Aravis and Caspian/Ramandu’s daughter, Mr. Pevensie being killed in the war, any Pevensie dying, the White Witch returning after LWW, etc. Any of these are, by default, AU fics because they contradict canon.

In sum: no OCs =/= canon-compliant necessarily.

Now this bit about the relationships and such I really disagree with, for many, many reasons, including this distressing habit in Narnia fandom where authors claim that they are the canon keepers channeling Lewis’ intent and that anything that departs from this vision is AU, non-canon compliant, and by implication, inferior, etc. I wonder if it may come from the strong component of the fandom that is Evangelical Christian. They [edited as too over-broad] Some who adhere to this view may, I theorize, read the Bible literally and so too read Lewis literally. Regardless,  Antaprate takes a very, very narrow reading of “canon” that is common in this fandom but not so prevalent in others.

I would just point out that just because it is not mentioned in the text, does not mean it is not there. It just means it’s not mentioned, for whatever reason. I hope that she'll discuss this further, but she disables PMs so there's no way to interact with her unless she interacts with you.

To that end, with all the discussion of Morgan and Director Linch and Tebbitt, – all OCs – it makes me thoughtful when I consider Anaprate’s comment above. I’m not defending or arguing the canon-compliance point, nor do I particularly care if someone calls a story I write as non-canon compliant or otherwise. I’m routinely accused of perverting Lewis intent due to the background sexual content anyway, so at this point, whatever.    And so, on to the subject of romance, ships, and my OCs wandering about the landscape, come on in, the muddied, non canon-compliant water’s fine.

H., Linea, Clio, Indil, Min, and Autumnia in the previous entry and some PMs have been discussing whether Susan had a “true love,” in Narnia or otherwise, and also what the nature of her previous relationships, other than Rabadash.  Given the Colonel’s assessment of her, her actions with Tebbitt, and her conversations with Peter, she’s obviously had something. I’ve now stuck Director Linch into the mix, which makes for some interesting comparisons to Rabadash and Tebbitt and how her relationship with Tebbitt has developed and why.

Indil, Clio, and others, noted that so far, Peter is the odd man out, with only his one true love with the Cheetah and their little family group. I’ve promised to get to that, eventually, in AW. H. pointed out that I’ve mentioned how Peter doesn’t really, emotionally, have room for a romantic relationship, in much the same way that Asim has room only for war and God. I do see Peter’s loving of so many things so deeply and so well, and his hierarchy of values making it difficult, for all that he really wants it, to fit a relationship with a single person into the mix.

And I don’t ship Asim with anyone, even if he is very fond of dark chocolate.

In answer to some questions, I’ve not, by the way, ruled out same sex (though non-incestual) relationships, particular with those indiscriminate Dryads. I’ve just not written it. I’ve had in my head a discussion that Richard will have with Peter about the anecdotal observations made in the bush:

“Richard, is that observer bias, I detect? Or are you actually embarrassed? ”

“Well no,” Richard stammered, feeling oddly discomfited at the man’s composure. “But I do know that presenting a paper on observations of male giraffes’ sexual couplings would likely have me arrested on indecency grounds!”

This has also resulted in speculation that perhaps one reason Lucy and Edmund have (ultimately successful) relationships as compared to Susan and Peter is the confounding influence of the sex of their Guards. Autumnia also speculated that this might be because Lucy and Edmund are younger and feel freer to pursue these interests.

There was lots of discussion Edmund and Morgan’s poor communication, whether Edmund really is to blame, and how they are going to patch things up when I get around to the next section. I had thought to have Sallowpad tell Morgan about Edmund’s betrayal to the Witch here and how it is confounding his behavior now. That, however, is something that needs to come from him. I’d wanted to do a segment of Morgan in Narnia being all Banker like with Calormenes and such (oh gawd, more OCs) but now I’ll move that to Archenland with Edmund going to see her when she and Lucy return from their audit of the silver mine.

“Why isn’t Morgan coming to Narnia?” Edmund asked. “She’s completed the Code, she needs to make her report on the mine. Why not do that here rather than in Anvard?”

Peter adjusted his aching leg on the stool and restrained the urge to throw a heavy paperweight at his brother. “Perhaps because she wishes to avoid an awkward meeting with you.”

“Why would it be awkward?”

“I am not going to mediate your relationship, Edmund.”

“What is there to mediate?” Edmund countered. “I was not aware there was a problem.” He paused and then added lamely, “And it’s not a relationship.”

The snapping of Crow beaks and Jalur’s growl signaled the profound disagreement.

OK, stopping now.

Comments

[katharhino.livejournal.com]

Antaprate takes a very, very narrow reading of “canon” that is common in this fandom but not so prevalent in others.

Dude, your fandom is weeeeiiiiirrrrd. I say that to myself a lot, when reading your meta commentary and things like "Lucy is always portrayed as ____" or "the fandom convention is that Susan has to be _____" It really reinforces my general rule of staying OUT of Narnia fandom. You are the one exception. (Are you honored?)

Of course, my home fandom (Austen) has its own oddnesses, and don't even get me started on those.

I went back and reread the comments on the previous entry and I think I agree that Susan/Tebbitt is not my OTP. I was actually kind of surprised you ended with them together because I always thought they had more attraction/chemistry than potential for a Real Relationship.

I also like that you have characters that don't have to be in a relationship, either EVER or at this point in their lives. That seems much more realistic than pairing everyone off until no one is left.

I was most intrigued by the comments at the very bottom of the previous post, about Morgan's choices. I was thinking about that, and surely Morgan would know what she's getting herself into, given her background? I mean as far as producing a child. I'm assuming that would have been an expected part of the banker's arranged pairings, too. Maybe she never thought about it? And of course, it sucks if her only two choices in life are either bear a child to person X or to person Y. I don't mean to say that makes it all okay (how generous! She even gets to choose! Womens' lib!). But I mean that she would understand the implications. Or maybe she needs to be shown to have a possible third choice, after the restructuring of the Code, and she can at least consider it.

Throwing that out there because it got me thinking.

I can't wait for the Susan/Rafe Linch story. *ducks*

[katharhino.livejournal.com]

PS... reading the comments after me, I feel compelled to add that I assumed from day one that you were heading toward Peter/Mary, and I totally see that working, in an atypical sort of way. They have tons of chemistry, but equal strength unlike Susan/Tebbitt. If you weren't going there, then I'll be surprised and your surprises are great too.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

The discussions about Morgan have been incredibly helpful. I have assumed in my head that there are not any accidents in terms of her choices -- other than falling for him in the first place. Something that did occur to me, as I was working on a later scene is how she insists that she's so terrible with people -- and I could see her being very fearful of passing on her awkward,"undesirable" traits to children. There is a collision, of sorts -- her desire for independence and self determination with her loyalty of which a component of that is self-sacrifice. I think that where the resolution of them lies is, as E pointed out, in how much she feels she fits in Narnia. The two elements are in tension and are inherent in her character as written. So, there's a line there to be drawn.

And yeah, the fandom is weird.

As for the Tebbitt/Susan, I like how one person -- it might have been H. (and Clio said something similar), that if we look at Rabadash and Linch, it's Tebbitt who is the outlier. He's attractive, even if not her usual type, he's competent, and he respects her, which for Susan is key.

and another who sees Peter & Mary? Huh. This surprises me. I can count on one hand the number of reader who, until today, had said something about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Count me among the Peter/Mary shippers, at least potentially. I'm not quite sure about the what or the how, or the how long, but I figured *something* was going on there. It's all in the dog not barking as Edmund and Lucy observed. I don't think it's just the physical resemblance- it's the challenge that they present each other, the reactions of each to the reactions of everyone else to the other, etc.

It definitely couldn't be a relationship that lasts without Mary coming to some sort of terms with the Narnia mystery- whether she learns to accept what she cannot know (seems doubtful) or gets some more direct knowledge. I don't know if you've stated Mary's age precisely, but she seems to be one of the youngest adult (by one measure or another) characters, perhaps about Lucy's age in experience.

But I see them as on some sort of collision course, and a relationship of some sort could be a result. From Peter's point of view, Mary's not at all interested in deferring to his High King-ness, but is in the rarefied ranks of "interesting" people that Peter has met on This Side. From Mary's point of view, Peter is a very difficult puzzle, which will continue to hold her interest for some time.


Morgan's fear of passing on her awkward ways is something I can totally understand- she's very aware of how difficult her interactions with the world are.

And I think it was me who noted Tebbitt as an outlier :-)

I'm having a blast with this discussion, particularly as the general subject matter occupying the characters is so interesting to think about.

-H.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

I'll just add this to the tally of P/M shippers. I'm really surprised. Until this post, I could count on one hand the number of people who have raised it.

And I am glad I moved this over here, so I could get straight who said what. I've been taunting my Susan/Tebbitt shippers on Twitter with how he's just Susan's fling and the serious relationship in her life. I really should just kill him off, I think.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, but if he dies, she'll be more hung up on him than she otherwise would be (well, maybe ;-)

-H

[(Anonymous)]

'E'

I can certainly sympathize with Morgan's POV on her prospective child. Any parent wants their kids to inherit their strenghts and not their weaknesses, particularly if that child is going to grow up to rule a country.

But I keep coming back to Jalur's words earlier in H&M about winning the heart of a Narnian by putting Aslan first and Narnia second. These are also the most important qualities you'd want in a Narnian ruler. Now Morgan has issues with Aslan, but she does love Narnia and Narnians. And maybe, when she's considering whether she wants this child for herself and for Narnia, she'd consider how important that love for Narnia is. The Rabadash incident would drive home to the Native Narnians and Morgan just how important the type of mother/father to the heir of Narnia is, not just that there is one. Imagine a Peony or Rabadash subtly influencing their offspring, the heir of Narnia, against Narnia and Aslan ...

The real danger would be that any child of Edmund and Morgans would inevitably have horrible allergies. And armies do move in the spring. It would be the perfect time to attack Narnia. "The King cannot see to duel. His eyes are watering. Look he sneezed. Attack!"

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

What would I do without you all, I have no clue. But I keep coming back to Jalur's words earlier in H&M about winning the heart of a Narnian by putting Aslan first and Narnia second. These are also the most important qualities you'd want in a Narnian ruler. Now Morgan has issues with Aslan, but she does love Narnia and Narnians. I was talking about this exact issue with myself in the car this morning. I've hinted before about the Kingmaking ceremony Peter undergoes in his first year of Narnia -- that it is a challenge for him, and difficult, and very, very foreign to the English boy he was, even frightening and maybe immoral and he worries it will change him. Aslan tells him he does not have to do these things, yet he decides to do so, for love of Narnia, and ultimately, it transform him, into a better person, a better leader and King. And that's a conversation Peter shall have with Morgan, some day, when she taps nervously on his door, asks that all the Guards go out of earshot and asks him of that time he put the person he had been and still was aside, and did a great thing for love of Narnia.

[linneasr.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've been thinking about the Kingmaking ceremony, with great curiosity. Why only the High King, was that what makes his return so urgent (movieverse), is that what makes him HIGH King...????

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

STOP ME NOW.... I did not assume that it was necessarily only the High King... I have not thought it out, admittedly. I've thought it's some very old ceremony, done with each successive monarch, male or female, and if Peter did it, the others did not have to do so, but presumably could if they wished. I did not think it was what made him High King, but something separate.