rthstewart | Backstory on Tim the Piegon [sic] -- Part 2

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Backstory on Tim the Piegon [sic] -- Part 2

The previous entry and comments on the story erupted with a bunch of questions, so I'll try to address them there.

First, there was lots of discussion of the Right Honourable Edmund Pevensie. I did not have this Brit-picked before posting, obviously, and there were some things that I knew in putting out there, would generate comment and possible correction from my British readers. So, if there was something glaringly wrong, do drop me a line.

Over many stories, I’ve been developing Edmund's compassion even for those who do not deserve it and his hard-won ability to fairly adjudge criminal conduct. There is lots of focus on Edmund the spymaster (Venona, Crow) as well, but Asim has been very concerned with Edmund's pursuit of that career. I do mention in Pigeon that Edmund worked on reparation issues.

In head canon, Edmund assumes a position of significant prominence in the UK judiciary and international human rights jurisprudence. Right Honourable appeared to be an appropriate title for a jurist of several UK courts and so I picked that title, not saying which court(s) and whether or not he had ever also been knighted -- it is certainly possible and given that there is a whole lifetime + 15 or more years for a man of enormous compassion and significant intellect, well none of it is out of reach, really. He and Lucy have done a lot of work with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the International Human Rights Law Group.

Susan is indeed twice married and twice widowed. Tebbitt is buried in Berlin. Peter campaigns hard for her OBE and she receives it before he does. It is recompense for her never being knighted in Narnia. I think Peter’s title comes very late in life – the Knight of Pentacles Agnes had seen in the Tarot finally wins his spurs and becomes King again. Whether and how Edmund received his, if he received it, I don’t know. I’m enjoying reading readers’ speculation about Edmund’s English law career and knighthood. So you all keep on speculating and when I see something that catches my eye, I’ll write it. Or, really, please, give it a go yourself.

lauren_titmus asked whether and how Peter could pursue his own political career without Edmund, to which I say, absolutely. Edmund's sole, highest, and best use is not to keep Peter out of trouble. Politics is Peter's thing, and he's very good at it and serves for a very, very long time. Peter says in Part 1 and again in Part 3 that he doesn't keep notebooks the way that Richard, Mary, and Digory do, because he doesn't have much to say. He does start keeping a notebook once he's de-mobbed in which he takes note of every person he meets who is having a problem -- the leaky roof, the cheque that did not come, the troublesome bill collector. I hinted at this in the Give the Pevensies a Friend comment fics. He carries a hammer in his bag and what becomes a very thick address book and eventually runs for office -- I don't know enough of the British political system of the 50s, 60s, and 70s at the moment, but that's how he gets into it.

He and Margaret Thatcher did not get along at all.

Yes, Lucy is the one with the criminal records for civil disobedience, though they all have had their brushes with authority. Jack is Jack Clark from AW, Tom Clark's son. I thought of doing something differently there and in head canon, have actually, assuming Lucy's death, thought Jack marries Alice Jones, Lucy and Susan's school chum. But as Lucy's not dead, she's with Jack in some sort of relationship not specified. I'd thought of maybe having a younger woman companion (again unspecified) but didn't want to introduce another character and Lucy and Jack do get along very well.

I had some issues with Lucy’s degrees. She’s referred to as Doctor in the Avengers cross and I run with the idea that she is involved with Edmund in human rights work involving disappearances and mass graves. I’m not sure how she got her degrees or where and the DD (for Doctor of Divinity) is one I sort of liked but as

adaese rightly points out, it’s hard to imagine Lucy sitting still that long to write a thesis. That might change. Her degrees do come later in life.

Miriam. I've mentioned before that there was one more significant character to be introduced in AW -- Miriam, a Jewish nurse from Poland or Germany and either a camp survivor or a refugee from the Kindertransport and Edmund’s romantic interest. I went back and forth on including her here. I'd originally wrote her in and had her talking with Julia at the end where the two of them discuss the veritable pride of lions that surrounds the family. I then removed the dialogue and wrote the conclusion with Julia by herself. Then I wondered if I should remove Miriam because I was worried that people would be angry that Edmund had re-married after Morgan so I was a little loose with the wording to avoid committing myself to a character people might not like.

Commoner Royalty. This is the name that Julia has given to her book series about the family. Greaves pointed out that with all these people doing all these things, it’s a bit like the Kennedys. That’s exactly on point. I had lines in the story about the Pevensies being this clan of rabble rousers, politicians, public servants, advocates, builders, healers, explorers, scientists, and just out doing things. The closest I got was the statement that the family never relied upon schooling alone.

Oh, why do the hate the Sun? Rupert Murdoch, the Leveson inquiry and all that. Yes,

lauren_titmus, Edmund COULD be on the Leveson panel.

If I start to fill out these people more, I’ll do a family tree. All four Pevensies have had children with their respective partners. Peter and Susan both have grandchildren.

So that’s all. I tried to write a fun story tying in a current event with octogenarian Pevensies. I’m really glad some folks enjoyed. Some other feedback I got has been very upsetting, so thanks again to those of you who did like it and let me know!

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Ahh, just the backstory I was looking for. Thank you!

I so much like this version where nobody dies, and where their Narnian experience is the background and the reason for what they contribute to our world.

Nice to see them all the way up to our day - and to hear some of the facts that didn't make it into the narrative!

I expect QEII, who's no dope, appointed Edmund to the Privy Council, hence he's a Right Honourable. The Privy Council are appointed by the Monarch (okay, in these degenerate days, probably not by her personally, but for Edmund, I daresay she bent the rules) and give advice in all manner of things, including judicial.

Could Lucy's degrees be honorary, or wouldn't that be fitting? I would think for DD it could be? For lived theology?

I love the idea of exploring the larger family life, and Miriam's story.

Rt Hon is perfectly correct for Edmund - it's just that he really ought to have been knighted as well. This happens pretty much automatically when you get to that kind of level within the judiciary. The other common route to the Privy Council would be by way of being a cabinet minister - most of the Councillors who don't have any level of title seem to have come through that route. Which also tells us that Peter hasn't been in the cabinet, or he'd be a Rt Hon as well, which in turn implies he was one of the troublemakers, consistently ready to say so if he thought his party leaders were wrong and not at all good at doing as he was told. But we knew that already!

I bet his reaction to Thatcher's infamous "We are a grandmother!" was amusing. Here he is, trying so hard all his life to be a man of the people, and there she goes slipping out a royal We.

I think Peter would be SUCH a troublemaker. Question time? With PM Thatcher? They curl their lip at him and I envision scathing editorials about him that constantly stir up all sorts of sordid details. I admit I wasn't quite sure the order of titles and what was just, as they say, going too far and gilding the lily or buttering the danish.

I posted in the other thread that I'm really enjoying the speculation of how Edmund might have ended up with a knighthood and all the different "titles" (:ahem:) he has had. Poor Julia doesn't know why Edmund finds it so amusing to be able to rattle them all off. "Duke! You forgot Duke! Count! And of course Bag Carrier! Secretary!"

As for Peter, there's a poignant story in there that I mentioned in the other thread. He finally attains it and his father hasn't survived to see his eldest son achieve what he wanted him to, albeit by very unconventional means. Further,Edmund will be able to see it, which he did not before, and Julia is mystified by these references to Rhindon, Maugrim and Sir Peter Wolfsbane.

I adore titles, and I am so enjoying this conversation of English ones.

"Duke! You forgot Duke! Count! And of course Bag Carrier! Secretary!" Edmund would do that, too.

Breaker of the Wand of (insert name of his daughter's fairy doll). On Boxing Day, too.

Variations on this have kept me up all morning rather than having a lie in. I'm going there. See, Daddy-Evil Knight-Troll was doing battle with Fairy Daughter Helen and he got a little carried away. Also, a dressing gown and horse hair wig were involved in the costume and there is much wailing and sobbing for Uncle Peter to please come RIGHT AWAY and fix the fairy wand because Uncle Peter fixes things and Daddy breaks them. So, a few questions.
I'm assuming that Peter is representing some reliably Labor working class constituency and probably urban rather than suburban or rural, maybe even some part of London? Here, a member is from his or her district -- I assume that is true for MPs? Any thoughts on his constituency?

You do ask difficult questions some time!

I think MPs were generally from their constituency, or at least strongly associated with it, until comparatively recently, though now carbetbaggers are all too common. Margaret Thatcher stood for election in two different Labour seats before finally bagging Finchley in 1959. I don't think she had particularly strong connections with any of them - the first one, Dartford, she'd simply been friends with the chair of the local Tory party while at Oxford.

If I were a really mischievous person, which of course I'm not, I'd love to see Peter representing Grantham, which is the birthplace of the former Rt Hon Member for Finchley - it would really give spice to their spats over the despatch box. But it's a) a real constituency, b) tory, and c) wildly implausible. You could carve an extra constituency out of Oxford, which has an industrial hinterland - they used to make vast numbers of cars there. It's a reasonable area for him to get more and more involved, till he realises it's taken over completely from his studies.

Been burrowing around a bit more.

Oxford wasn't split into the two constituencies that I think of it as having until 1983 (though until 1950 there were separate University seats). So you could reasonably carve out a constituency earlier than that for Peter, including Cowley for the motor works and the poorer suburbs to the south and east of the city. Then in 1983, Thatcher's government (no doubt fed up with his repeated criticisms) shuffled the boundaries around to get the present-day constituencies. I can't see him losing his seat in an election for any other reason, he'd be too popular with his voters. But if he's been a bit of a thorn in his own party's side as well, then they might well have seen to it that he didn't get to stand in the new Oxford East, which explains how he comes to leave the House.

Or, much simpler, just give him an unnamed not-quite-central London patch.

I'm embarrassed at your thoroughness for something that really is just errrr a lark. Really. Just a lark. Everybody dies, remember? But, thank you. For many, many reasons I'm really happy to shove Peter into some imaginary constituency in Oxford East. And if anyone objects, I shall refer them to Adaese my Boundary Constituency advisor. thank you!!!!!

Just don't call it Oxford East, because that's the name of the new (1983+) constituency. You could call it Oxford South, or Oxford Cowley, perhaps.

...Uncle Peter fixes things and Daddy breaks them. Bwahahahaha!

Also very much enjoying that Peter now has an imaginary constituency.

I have really enjoyed this whole "they used Narnia to help the world" and "they didn't die" stuff. Your characters are so rich the whole "non-canon" thing doesn't even matter. So much fun. Thanks for the explanations.

Thank you so much for reading and reviewing.

I actually like the idea of Edmund marrying in Spare Oom. It almost seems like as hard as it was to hear the voices of his beloved ones at the World's End, it also might have given him some closure, given him a chance to say yes, time to live this life here and not constantly mourn for Narnia. And while Edmund and Susan are not as naturally loving and open as Peter and Lucy, I can't see either of them content to go through life without a partner by their side.

I do imagine that Edmund might have struggled with a bit of guilt when he found himself starting to be attracted to Miriam, though, and Peter gets him drunk, Susan lectures him, and Lucy helps him come 'round to see it as a good and healthy thing. Just my guess, though!

Random thoughts about these lovely extra tidbits:

Tebbitt's burial in Berlin sounds like there's some interesting backstory behind it.

I'm surprised Peter married. When I read the Pigeon fic, it didn't seem as if he was in a relationship at all (though, he could have been a widower by then). I always figured given his high standards and his relationship with Dalia, he never found the right woman in either world.

Then I wondered if I should remove Miriam because I was worried that people would be angry that Edmund had re-married after Morgan so I was a little loose with the wording to avoid committing myself to a character people might not like.

You've already hinted about Miriam a while back so it wasn't surprising to see her show up here. Is it a coincidence that her name begins with an 'M' just like Morgan? And I think for those that are concerned about his marriage here, Susan probably represents the reader in that we feel protective of him. I love how Susan never thinks anyone is good enough for her brother -- it really does seem to fit our general sentiments. :-) And well, if she is able to accept Miriam (grudgingly or not), so can we.

Edited 2012-11-30 15:00 (UTC)

I was vague about a lot of the relationships because of course my AW head canon had them all dying, so they didn't long enough for them. The idea of Peter marrying is sentiment winning out, I admit. I've maintained that he gives too much to everyone else, and to Dalia, to really commit to anyone. But then I thought about Anastigmat and Songsmith's Mary and Peter AU and I thought, well, why not? She'll always be in love with Richard, he'll always sort of yearn for a human version of Dalia, and so they are out in the American southwest looking for bones, they get drunk in Las Vegas and get married at a drive thru wedding chapel. By Elvis. Or in some adobe mission run by a barefoot Franciscan. I'd always assumed Mary was infertile due to a botched surgery in Hong Kong, but that's all head canon and it can change. I'd thought Peter had at least one great grandchild and I had written that his grand-daughter, Emma, was pregnant.

I'm very heartened by the reaction to Miriam -- yes, there's that whole thing about M names. One enduring visual I've had is how, after the crash, Mary, being the only one left besides Susan, helps clean out the dreary flat that Edmund, Lucy, and Peter have been sharing due to the London housing shortages. Asim, Kun, Lee, and Miriam all go with her to help and Miriam ends up curled on Edmund's bed, holding a pillow, wearing his shirt, and crying. Actually, in Under Cover when Eustace reflects on Edmund being there with his girl and how they argue all the time, that was Miriam. I think my head canon on her has changed -- which it can since no one knows anything about her. Perhaps, rather than all the argument and intellectualism of Morgan, this relationship is very creative, gentle and nurturing? She is graceful and socially adroit? I don't know. It's something to think about.

Tebbitt was shot in Berlin and buried there, perhaps between the no man's land in the spaces between the walls and fortifications on the death strip, or somewhere else.

I am, right now, sitting about two blocks from where the Wall used to run. If you ever, ever want photos, let me know. :-)

And this is why I should not suggest that fictional characters get married by an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas. Because, yeah, been there, done that, and I could so very, VERY easily do it again.

This is Luke Skywalker marrying Mara Jade in May 1999.

This picture fills me with unholy glee.

I absolutely adored it, and I wouldn't mind at all if you write more fic with old! not-dead! Pevensies reminiscing about their incredible adventures. *cough*

I also don't mind Edmund finding a partner after Morgan. I think it would be extremely sad if he didn't, and in a way a waste of everything Morgan gave him, if that makes sense. But I never think a second love diminishes the first one - I'm no Marianne Dashwood. :-P

Hearing others say that they are glad to see him embrace someone else in his life is very heartening. As you say, the second does not diminish the first. Thanks so much!!!

I just love this all so much. I also think that a happy second marriage is an underused trope. So yay for Miriam! And Pevensies with children! Happy endings!

I have always thought that Edmund went to Oxford after the War and worked on the Nuremburg trials as a law clerk. While not in class he volunteered for Oxfam and was one of the masterminds behind Oxfam's rise to international prominence at the United Nations.

Edmund sits at the center of many of the suspicions and fingerpointing about governments using NGOs to infiltrate the UN, as well as other governmental agencies, as he is in fact, the international spy.

When Amnesty is formed in 1961, they immediately call Edmund to join as he is too important to ignore. Edmund's talents not only as Amnesty's lead lawyer, but also as an organizer and public figure lead to Amnesty's reception of the Nobel prize in 1978, but it is for the organization as a whole.

QEII nominates him to the Privy Council in recognition of his international status and service to the crown as part of MI6 (although this is not made public).

Doctor Dolly

(It's me, Miniver.) I love your backstory of Miriam, and I think she suits Edmund very well. I don't think she negates his profound love for Morgan at all. As for Lucy, if she's styling herself MD and/or DD, they have to be earned degrees, right? All sorts of people get honorary doctorates, and I don't think they're entitled (there's a pun in there somewhere) to use them in official identification of themselves. So this makes our Lucy at least a physician, which I can fully imagine. It would certainly be useful to her vocation of helping people around the world. Of course I always want to know more about all four of them and anyone else in their orbit, including Eustace and Jill. (More about Peter! More about Peter!) What a tremendously luxuriant storyline you've created here. Thanks for all of it. Write all you want. We'll be here waiting to read it and savor it.

Thank you so much, Miniver. It's lovely to have you drop by. With Peter, I've got a little bit started where he is speaking to his daughter, Emma, about how responsible he feels for others. After someone called my bluff and quoted Isaiah back at me, I'm thinking of something more obviously theological and AU for Christmas -- at the risk of potentially putting off my non-Christian readers. But as Ghandi said, he liked Christ very well -- it was Christians he had issue with.

Errr, where was I going with this? Only that sinners and rock throwing goes very well with Edmund, light of all nations goes very well Lucy, the reed that shall not break and blessed are the peacemakers is so Susan, and Peter is the rock and caring for the least.

I was thinking about Lucy and her thesis, and for some reason it reminded me of a number of saints who are said to have miraculously learned to read and/or write (a quick googling turns up Bl. Hosanna and St. Catherine).

I feel like something along those lines would have to happen--intervention from Aslan, somewhere between "miraculous granting of patience" and "entire thesis appears out of thin air, formatted and double-spaced."

I think, though, that Lucy absolutely should be a Doctor of Divinity. If only because I want to see her bemused colleagues finding her in trees.

--Mori

Great to hear from you, Mori and thanks! This is one of those things that comes out of nowhere and then I'll spend a year backing up an explanation for it. Except that I DO see Lucy developing medical expertise and becoming a doctor and I see the divinity being something of an emotional interest for her that she pursues because she's passionately interested in it. And she has a very, very good editor.

But I am making this up as I go, so somethings are bound to change. Or I stick characters and and do things simply because I want to use the cast that I have rather than creating new ones. And there is no denying this is keeping me from AW! It's so much fun!

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for that last tiny comment about Peter. It saved him from being the energetic heir to Winston Churchill in my imagination.

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Backstory on Tim the Piegon [sic] -- Part 2

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