rthstewart | Chapter 14, Just Like The Ones We Used To Know, Christmas Day

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Chapter 14, Just Like The Ones We Used To Know, Christmas Day

Finally, I get Chapter 14 up, after a detour to something hinted at in Under Cover.

There actually isn't that much research that I haven't already discussed before.

The King's Speech took some research to find and while it's quite the info dump, I just didn't feel right editing it. The part in the House of Russell was in my previous Christmas story but edited slightly to fit better within TSG.

I did have fun with Susan's fashions and spent a lot of time here looking at the pictures of French fashion from the 1930s. I imagine Susan wearing something like this:

Source: HPrints Also at this stte, you can see pictures of the sort of lovely things that First Officer Pole has in her attic.

Oh, I dropped the hint that Michael Pole is with the RAF Photo Reconnaissance Unit flying out of RAF Benson in Oxfordshire.

Edmund's musing on the Leipzig War Crimes tribunals come from various sources and while generally reviled as a failure were also precedent-setting. My particular spin on it comes from Telford Taylor's The Anatomy of the Nuremberg Trials. You can read the basics in the wiki entry.

This page has good information about the context of Foreign Secretary Eden's statement to the House of Commons on December 17, 1942 regarding what would eventually be called the Holocaust.

Thanks to

adaese, Doctor Dolly,

anastigmatfic,

h_dash_h and felipemarcusthomas who have been invaluable as I juggled with the different interactions.

That's all. Thanks so much for reading. I'm now at the point where I can really turn to the NBB. First check in is in a week and I've not started, so here's hoping I can pull it off. And that's all for now. I do hope I hear from folks. I was two days late posting this. I promised Christmas Day, but I felt I disappointed by using the King's Christmas Message and the repeat of the Russell House part, so I wrote the Under Cover tie in. Writing that segment took a little time.

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So you're a few days late, no matter! I suspect even if you posted at Christmas, not many people would have had the time to come online and read it. :-)

The fashions were lovely and I'm sure Susan did enjoy dressing up for the part. The clothes might not have been new, but I must say, Elizabeth Pole did have some very nice outfits sitting in her attic!

Will we ever meet Jill's father? Not that we have to, but I'm curious. I think I'd be more interested to see when Mr. Pevensie finally comes home and really see for the first time how different his family has become. Also, it sounds like Susan's heard quite a bit of gossip about him... does she feel the same about him as her mother does?

I rewrote the scene with Susan and Helen several times. In one version, Susan understands what is going on between Beatrice and her mother. In the one that ended up in the story, she does not. Further, Susan, in some versions, was very manipulative. I really wanted Susan to hear that her mother was proud of her. Where I came down is that it's a lot easier for parents to understand what their children have been up to, than it is for children to understand what their parents are doing. It's very hard for children to see parents as people. That viewpoint in the end very much colored the scene. So, what Susan thinks of the reports of her father? I wonder if Susan is since the trip naturally aligning herself more with her father, more likely to dismiss her mother as silly, dumb, interfering, or not very sophisticated. She's not actively thinking that, but she's acting it out.

Long answer for I'm not sure how she feels about her father. I think she's probably a few years away from accepting him as a jerk. He's unfaithful and that's bad, but maybe Susan reasons that's just what powerful men do. Or maybe she draws a line with her mother.

As for Jill's father, I was thinking he would be a convenient person to kill.

Hmm, but would Susan see her father as powerful? I mean, they are a middle-class family (albeit with some education), and while Wassname Pevensie's expertise may be valuable to the war effort, I don't get the sense anywhere of him being a man of authority except in a very limited way.

And Susan, after fifteen years as a reigning monarch, is even less likely to see her father as a powerful figure.

This is a tricky situation to navigate--that children don't see their parents as fully human is clear, but then again these children aren't, really.

... I do hope you won't kill Jill's father, if only because you already killed off a sympathetic African-American character.

Those are excellent observations about Susan's reaction to her father. I have some things very clearly set out regarding Mrs. P, Edmund, and Peter, but less with Lucy and Susan. I'd actually assumed that in comparison to the other children, he's extremely proud and supportive of Susan doing the proper, good, loyal British conservative thing of being a Cold War Warrior. She's not a disappointment to him as the others are.

And yes, you are quite right. I did not want to kill Michael Pole for several reasons and the fact that Guy Hill is dead was one of them.

Thanks again, so much!

I'd actually assumed that in comparison to the other children, he's extremely proud and supportive of Susan doing the proper, good, loyal British conservative thing of being a Cold War Warrior. She's not a disappointment to him as the others are.

Really? Because even my father would be appalled at the thought of me being an actual spy and going into danger and all that unladylike rot, and he's nearly a full generation younger than Mr. Pevensie. I think John Pevensie would be not only appalled but enraged that Helen knew about it and indeed encouraged it. What's good for grown women is not appropriate for his darling daughter. I see massive, massive battles on this issue. And in some way I could see Peter siding with his father, not because of the danger, but because of the ethical murkiness that he so dislikes.

John Pevensie (it is John, right?) would know, because of his intelligence work, the risks that any women in the SOE run, and if Susan had to play a part in the war effort, he would want her safely tucked away at Betchley, punching cards. Women on the front lines? That's for the Soviets, not for England.

... or that's my take on the issue, anyway. If you can bring him around to it, I'll be interested in how you make it work.

Yes, I'm interested to see how it will work too! My thinking had definitely been more in the direction of post-War when he thinks Susan has some nice government type job, doing the good work, fighting the fight, supporting the anti-Communist cause. Whether she actually does (or is a spy, or whatever) is another matter but I had seen them as being very aligned with the conservatives and England as Empire and being virulently anti-communist, as opposed to Lucy and Peter who are moving very far left.

Which is interesting, because in Narnia the (nominally) domestic territory they had the most trouble with, the Lone Islands, was populated by hyper-capitalists. I suppose one could fit Narnia into a conservative viewpoint on libertarian grounds, but it seems to lean more towards low-maintenance liberalism, to me. I mean, the response to the problem of Jezebel the Beaver was to give her a government job ;-)

I like Christmas Part 2 even more than Part 1 ...

I quite agree with you in keeping the whole of the King's speech. Either that or just using tiny, tiny snippets of it - but I for one enjoyed reading it in full.

Btw, you put the year as 1932, which is clearly just a misprint.

I've bought the DVD "The King's Speech", and also the book. I haven't watched the movie yet, but I've read the book, and it provides more background for your scene.

At least in 1997, the only time I've spent Christmas in England (with a friend), the monarch's speech was still at 3:00 PM. And it was not announced as her speech, it was just announced as "The Queen".

Btw, did you choose that Casablanca quote because La Belle Aurore is the French name of The Dawn Treader?

More at ff.net ...

Edited 2011-12-28 00:08 (UTC)

The Queen's speech is indeed still at 3pm. Just the right time for digesting a large, late lunch.

And the film of "The King's Speech" is brilliant.

Thanks so much!!

Thanks so much!! I'm glad you liked the chapter. I was worried the part with the locksmith was boring. I'd had the parts with Susan and her mother and Lucy and Eustace written for a LONG time and it just seemed thin.

The 1932 isn't a misprint. In my notes I'm referring to the first Christmas Message which was in 1932 when George V spoke. The current monarch in 1942, George VI, made his first message in 1937 and delivered his famous speech covered in the film The King's Speech in 1939 with the poem, "God Knows" that begins,
"And I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year: “Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.”
And he replied:
“Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the Hand of God. That shall be to you better than light and safer than a known way.”
So I went forth, and finding the Hand of God, trod gladly into the night. And He led me towards the hills and the breaking of day in the lone East.
I was trying to use that quote but then decided not to do so as it wasn't the direction I wanted to go.
I had no idea about the Casablanca quote! I liked the blue and gray. I had another one I was going to use and I've badly wanted to use the film, but it only was released in the US in December 1942 and I could not figure out how it could possibly be in the UK by then.

Thank you again so much. Good luck with your NBB! I hope it goes well!!! I've GOT to work on mine!

I see about 1932 - I guess I got the Kings mixed up!

There have been two translations of CoN into French, and the first version of SC, from 1992, was called Le Voyage de la “Belle Aventure” - at least that's what the site where I found it says now, although I'm sure it used to say la “Belle Aurore”.

So maybe I'm mixing it up with the current title, from a new translation with a different publisher, from 2002:
L'Odyssée du passeur d'aurore.
http://eq5.net/baynes/xl-n-sett/fr5vdt_l.html
The Aurore is there anyway!

My NBB is on hiatus - I need to learn a lot more about story-telling before I can finish it. I've suggested to my beta-reader that we spend more time on it and post it on ff.net eventually (without a deadline), and she thinks it's a good idea. Currently she's helping me with my Secret Santa submission. She really is a great help.

Best of luck with working on your NBB!

Thanks again and I'm sorry we won't be seeing your NBB yet, but I know you had a huge idea in the making. So, best to take your time and do it the way you want it!! Happy New Year!

It's great to see this update! I enjoyed all of the Christmas details and all of the family details.

Thanks for writing!

Thanks so much and I hope your holiday was lovely!!!

Okay, clearly I cannot comment on AW yet (and that's bothering me more than you can imagine), but the fashions are AMAZING. Just beautiful. I love old clothes like this, and sometimes I wish I had excuses to wear them. :)

All the other links are brilliant, and I have a feeling that some of them may come in handy one of these days! Hope you are well.

I hope you had a wonderful holiday and I admit I am looking forward to you reading AW....

I hope you did as well! I am looking forward to AW, too - I just need to find time. Time, time, time. :)

RAF BENSON! (high five as I've been there :D)

Lovely chapter hun, I really enjoyed the convo between Eustace and Lucy :)))

You can do the Big Bang! All will be fine :)))))))

Thanks so much! ACH! BIG BANG. Must begin writing now. I've got the Pegasus Bridge book by Stephen Ambrose in my briefcase and it's covered with little notes, underlining and things. Do you know about the history of the 6th Airborne Glider Division taking the Caen Canal (now Pegasus) Bridge? Major John Howard and that crew? Because I'm sorta wondering, oh god, am I really going to insert Peter Pevensie into that group of REAL people who did that REAL, amazing, critically important thing on D Day -- though, oh my, the thought of ending the story with Lord Lovatt crossing the bridge with his commandos and bagpiper is just not something to miss. Besides, you know, GLIDERS and PEGASUS and the 2nd Oxs & Bucks. Errr, rambling. Stopping now.

kjashdaskjh JSYK I would have no problem with this :)))))) Oooooh that book sounds good, I must try and get it out the library :) And of course SYMBOLISM :)))) Right I shall stop distracting you :) *prods you to write*

Goodness, you covered SO MUCH in this chapter, where to begin...

"I love the stories, Eustace. I believe they are true. I believe they tell truth. It is the people who tell them that I have very little patience with."

You had me at that line! I loved the entire Eustace and Lucy exchange. Goodness, I liked so many things... Edmund and Clark's bantering, Mrs. Pole setting things up for Susan, Susan and her Mum's reconcilliation, the working in of the King's speech. Richard flirting with Ruby—LOL! The sadness for Mary of the diminishment of Richard from her...

ASIM. Asim finally gets the painting! I cannot express how much I love him. And Rat & Crow helping Jill & Eustace. Absolutely hysterical. The transition of Susan was seamless and effective—just brilliant! It's sad to know that Susan will be leaving soon, and the rift to begin. Damnit, Lewis...

Loved this chapter! Definitely one of my favorites..

Thanks so much. I know, Damn it, Lewis, why did EVERYBODY DIE?? My hardest temptation is to say screw it, let everyone live and grow up to awesomeness and make money and love and have friends and adventures and babies. me bad.

Thank you again.

I just don't know where to start. This is highly satisfying and I couldn't think of a single thing to say.

Waiting very impatiently for the big band work,

doctor dolly

Your comments have helped a lot in my writing of the last three chapters with Helen. The credit to you was very sincere and I'm very grateful. Thank you.

Great job! (Sorry, this is in place of a formal review, life is a little hectic now) I really loved the entire chapter, but especially Asim's reaction to the painting, Liz Pole's helping out Susan, and Rat and Crow going to get the pics. By mentioning the origins of the various aspects of the Christmas celebration, and Elegabalus' introduction of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, you have made my ancient history major heart very happy!
Great job!
~LotL

It's funny to see that story from 2 years ago and I really hardly changed anything. I added Ruby, I added Jill. I made it clear that they all knew everyone and that Asim had been there for dinner and that there were lions roaming Russell House. It's kinda nice to revisit something and see that it still fits most of the space I allotted for it. Thanks so much and I hope you had a great holiday!

I forgot to review--it's been kind of madness around here. Anyway, I did very much enjoy this, especially with the found families theme, and the unexpected companionships. Your research is always so impressive, as well. I'm so looking forward to seeing Susan and Peter on the next stage of their journeys…

Thanks so much! I know about the madness! YULETIDE! FAMILY!! PUPPY!!! Did you end up with anything in Yuletide?

I really appreciate you taking the time to read and review. Thanks so much.

I don't write for Yuletide: I have such issues with assigned prompts, it's really ridiculous. And the schedule is always so cramped, and I don't have any history of writing for small fandoms, which makes me worried I wouldn't be able to do it right. So basically I offer to beta for folks, and that's it.

Last year I got to beta an Eagle of the Ninth story, but this year nobody even asked me. ::is sad::

Still, Yuletide is lovely even if I can't bring myself to participate.

Thanks so much for this chapter and the previous half. Sorry it took a while to get round to reviewing it. I have been working, but I have been thinking about it a lot and smiling to myself as I do.

You covered so much ground and I really liked how you gave everyone a significant scene/comment. No small feat to do this seamlessly, in context, and with such a large and diverse group of characters.

What I really liked--

Lucy and Eustace exiting church when they felt it was necessary. Contrasted with the beauty of the Carol service and the simple images of tthanks and sacrifice of the King's speech.

Peter's comment on the paper crown "I cannot imagine wearing a better crown today." Oh my...

The special Christmas present for Jill and Jack having their parents there for Christmas Day.

Susan reconciling with her mother. I was so glad to see that considering the danger Susan is going to be in.

Mary still not getting that trying to help Richard pick up things etc. is just going to make him mad. Everyone else in the household seems to be able to help tactfully. Or is it just that Richard gets really irritated with Mary because he is closest to her?

Digory and Polly cooing over hideous purple flying horse presents. I loved seeing that scene again and slightly expanded.

I had also been thinking about Edmund's reaction to dealing with war crimes when you raised it before. I think he would/will be very interested in the Nuremberg trials. I suppose there is no way he could realistically be present? Lessee--he would be about 17 years old in Spare Oom years in 1945-46 right? Too young to realistically be a very junior intern or something to some participant? Hmm...

Anyway--the story has been great so far, as always. Thank you again. Good luck with the next part--and the Big Bang. I look forward to it. And best wises for 2012.

ClaireI

Thank you, Clairel. I've thought about your comment about Mary and how everyone else seems to be learning and she isn't. I see that as a flaw in myself. I have a really, REALLY hard time just sitting back and letting someone do something badly or awkwardly -- my urge to FIX it is overwhelming. I'll take the hammer away, redo how someone has loaded the dishwasher, and unbutton the top button. I can't help myself and I think that is some of Mary's problem. She immediately sees something shaky or not right or likely to spill and she HAS to stop it and I think she would do the same to anyone.

As for Nuremberg, I'll just say, uh huh for now. On the Narnia side of things, I initially did a lot with Edmund as sort of sarcastic and code oriented -- reading and writing laws and contracts -- first in BRD and then as the clerk in the Lone Islands. Through Morgan, I've been able to use her to develop the mercy and compassionate part of his character. Further, a fundamental premise behind the swearing otters and hummingbirds has been the ability to love even the unlovable -- a point Edmund raises with Peter in the Narnia flashback at the TQSiT. We also see the development of Edmund speaking the lament for the wrongdoer. The interest in assuring justice even for those who don't deserve it is a fundamental thematic element of the work and very relevant in the post WW2 environment.

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Chapter 14, Just Like The Ones We Used To Know, Christmas Day

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Another beautiful chapter

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Christmas chapter

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