I interrupt your 3 sentence ficathon for an update

[rthstewart]

I just posted Chapter 12, Ties that Bind from Apostolic Way.

So, lessee. 

We have a further development of the different bonding systems of the animal kingdom.  In addition to the citations from the last entry, here, I offer the following, which explains something of Richard's reluctance and shock upon learning of the behaviors, a discussion that h_dash_h and I continued.  The following article addresses, among other things, just how long it took for the scientific community to even acknowledge what they did not see for decades.

Homosexual sex between ostriches was interpreted by one scientist as “a nuisance” that “goes on and on.” One man, studying Mazarine Blue butterflies in Morocco in 1987, regretted having to report “the lurid details of declining moral standards and of horrific sexual offenses” which are “all too often packed” into national newspapers. And a bighorn-sheep biologist confessed in his memoir, “I still cringe at the memory of seeing old D-ram mount S-ram repeatedly.” To think, he wrote, “of those magnificent beasts as ‘queers’ — Oh, God!”
Can Animals Be Gay, New York Times, March 31, 2010, Jon Mooallem

From Bailey and Zuk,Same-sex sexual behavior and evolution, Trends in Ecology & Evolution, June 16, 2009, I quote the following:
It is crucial that scientific contributions from animal studies shed more light than heat on the topic of same-sex behavior, so it is useful to define promising directions for future work and identify pitfalls to avoid as the field matures.

We get a lot more of Aidan and Lucy and a glimpse of Edmund and Morgan.  Doctor Dolly had asked what bonding Edmund and Lucy did if Susan and Peter had bonded with Narnia.  That answer is here in the chapter, and would be covered, eventually, in Harold and Morgan.  Aidan is quite the Stu character -- but I really cannot imagine Lucy in an angsty or combative relationship.  She's chosen a really good guy. 

And, finally, we have a scene with Mary and Peter alone, which was another one people wanted to see as we'd not seen them in the same space since way back in Part 1.  Which means of course, I simply had to do homage to camels, the Amazon, Scotus, and anastigmatfic.  Thank you!  The devastating reveal teased of in the last chapter is that Peter is irresistible camels.  I don't do OTPs, but if I did, that is THE ONE.

Then we get to the codebreakers.  The descriptions come from a couple of places, including this book by Sir F.H. Hinsley, the BBC site, WW2 The People's War  and a big huge World War 2 book that describes everything in detail, on each day of the war.  Each day. 

So, I hope you like it.  I didn't hear from a whole bunch of the usual people with the last chapter, so I'm a uneasy about posting this.  But it's done and I don't hold things hostage and the next one is well underway.  Those albatrosses and the references to Lysistrata will become more relevant.  Then I turn to the Narnia Big Bang, Rat and Sword Go To War. The deadline is February, so I'm going to be focusing on knocking out a war story in about 2 months.

And do check out the 3 sentence ficathon.  Awesome writers, really creative stuff and it's a terrific time suck (in the best possible way)

Comments

[autumnia]

Love the chapter, of course, and especially the Mary/Peter conversation about camels. I almost thought she would try to get Peter to tell her the real reason why he dislikes her using the M word.

It'd be interesting to see what Richard would think of all the scientific discoveries of today, where there are papers about same-sex bonding in animals -- I also think he'd get a kick out of reading about them, or seeing it in videos on Youtube. He'd probably laugh and say that he's known about this for years and years.

And I saw the cryptology machines on display in the WW2 exhibits at the Imperial War Museum! And totally thought of your stories.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! And now if we can just tear ourselves away from the 3 sentence ficathon!! As for Richard in the modern world, he'd love the women's fashions, first class air travel, and free towing from AAA. And he would laugh so hard at all the hand-wringing and feel very, very superior. "And you call yourself a scientist?" he would scoff and order another double martini.

[cofax7]

Then I turn to the Narnia Big Bang, Rat and Sword Go To War.

Woot! Awesome.

Also, I really enjoyed this entry, as well. It's hard to believe that field biologists are so baffled by that one element of animal behavior, and that they put such human (read: moral) interpretations on it!

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

The Times article was really a shocker for me. I had thought that the significant efforts over the years to not anthropomorphize animals would have led to a much more objective analysis. I was very surprised that people were trying to impute animal to human and vis versa and really, so morally judgmental in 1987? About butterflies? Even the bits about how the albatrosses were these wondrous examples of stable, romantic familial life, and I keep thinking, they are birds. How can we possibly understand what goes on in a bird's head? Further, it has been such a fundamental presumption and it just seems that it can't be made based upon the emerging data -- you see two animals mating and cannot assume it is heterosexual conduct. Again, I think, well doesn't everyone know just how many animals use mounting behavior for dominance? Very surprising all around.

And thanks so much for reading. I really appreciate it.

[sedri.livejournal.com]

I definitely liked it! Sorry if I was one of the ones who didn't comment on the last one (I know I didn't comment here on LJ, at least), but I do tire of listing example after example of things I liked ;) It's well worth the wait, regardless.

To get on my high horse for a moment, it's shocking how closed-minded the scientific community has been. Maybe I'm unusually lucky, but I was raised to consider homosexual affection to be perfectly normal, and in my life I've never had a problem with it - until other people started making faces at the subject. Is it petulant to scowl and ask what is so wrong with everybody?

Probably. Still, I'm tempted. Even within the much more open-minded fandom communities, there isn't enough general acceptance, by my reckoning. Is it cultural? Is Western society in general to blame, or religious upbringing? I've never had the latter, but much of the former, so it's hard for me to judge. What makes it sad is that Richard's shock probably wouldn't be out of place for many people were this story set today.

Anyhow, as it seems I have nothing all that useful to contribute, I'll shush now, and thank you again for this lovely chapter and lovely story...

... but I have to ask about your phrasing of this line: "That answer is here in the chapter, and would be covered, eventually, in Harold and Morgan." - does that mean you won't be finishing Harold and Morgan? I truly hope not!

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for reviewing. And I think you reviewed the last chapter?!! Anyway, thank you very much. I agree, it was shocking to see how much morality and blindness really was involved in supposedly scientific and objective judgements. Then the article has people calling fruit fly researchers for information how their gene work in fruit flies would help their children not be gay? The whole S-Ram and D-Ram really bothered me too because this is a researcher who has presumably moved beyond the typical anthropomorphizing and yet still makes these moral judgments about his research subjects. 1987 and people are getting upset about "gay" butterflies?

You do contribute by the way and thank you so much for commenting. it is useful and interesting to me to read what affects people and why as I am the world's worst judge of what readers impacts readers. I do this very much in isolation. I usually don't use betas unless I'm having real problems as I assume others have better things to do with their time. I don't really even have people with whom I bounce ideas off of, for they all have their own stories and RL and I don't like to monopolize their time with my hand wringing. The work would be better with betas, to be sure, and when others do get involved, it's better, but I don't want to impose.

Anyway, I've told very little of Lucy and Aidan's story. The first time, he's off camera, and that's in the 3 chapter of Black as Rat and Crow. Then, he's off camera again when Lucy talks about him with Mrs. Beaver. And then the extended flashback in TQSiT where he's under the tree, and Lucy is in the tree with Cyrus. If I told it, it would be in Harold & Morgan, late, at the end of that story. In head canon, he's had a lot of tragedy and the line about never being happy again is heartfelt. Again head canon, I write Archenland as being a hard place for women who are always expected to bear second sons, ideally twin boys. I assume his first wife died in childbirth, leaving Frieda to take care of her younger sister and then his sister also died, again probably in childbirth, leaving 4 children for her husband who then also dies -- an accident, or disease. Lucy saving his life and the two of them falling in love is very much a Cinderella-type story in reverse. The Queen rescues the pauper.

[the_rck]

Yea! It's good to see more about Lucy and Aidan. I'd wondered about them. Reading this was a good way to start my day.

Thanks for writing!

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much!! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[varnafinde.livejournal.com]

Just to say that I like the chapter - I've reviewed it at ff.net this time. Last chapter I think I only commented on in here - but I hope you counted it as a reaction anyway :-)

Glad to see that Jill's mother gets the news and is reassured about her daughter.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for reading and reviewing. It is so lovely to hear from you. In your review you had pointed out that it seems they all know more of Narnia than at first. They do. There's Asim's dreams, and Patel, Lee, and Kun all have various explanations that are not that far off -- of other lives lived. Richard knows enough to be content. Mary knows more than she thinks she does. Also, there are the heating vents and pipes that, when flues are open, allow others to listen in -- which Asim and Lee will both use. But everyone is all going their separate ways and the house will slowly sink, for a while, into the gloom of war. It would liven up again until after the war -- which is where this was all supposed to start in PART 2.

Thank you so very, very much.

[jenett]

Yay, more Lucy and Aidan! And I found the bits about Jill's mother absolutely fascinating. And delighted to see Lysistrata show up, as it's an awesome play.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you! there's a great quote from Lysistrata about how war is men's work, but with no men left in Athens, it is women's work. That thematic element, and the female bonded albatrosses really impact the next chapter.

Liz Pole is still a work in progress. She's rich and a little spoiled and very beautiful and she married a sports hero. She does love her daughter and despite the possible indications in the chapter, in my head canon, she and her husband probably have the strongest relationship of the many Spare Oom couples. Col. Clark will become quite the catch at Bletchley, which takes him off guard, but he nevertheless embraces it (and the young women there) in the spirit of Anglo-American relationships (which will eventually, really piss off Ruby). Liz Pole I think would be his friend and guide in interpersonal matters in a way that Asim cannot.

thank you again, so much.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you, thank you, thank you !

My day is made every time I see a new chapter from you :-)

I love the Mary and Peter scene. And Asim is still one of my favorite characters !

Thanks !

Marie

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much@! I'm glad you like Asim! He's not someone I go to as a point of view character very much because he is HARD to do! Thank you for reading and reviewing!

[snitchnipped.livejournal.com]

Oh, this chapter covered a lot of favored ground!

It's fascinating how Aiden and his background is slowly being revealed throughout the story... you never cease to surprise, and I never thought he'd be one of the more surprising elements!

And I agree with others... it's very surprising to learn how partial the scientific community was regarding such topics as homosexuality, and in such recent history.

I do love Peter and Mary interacting... everyone else seems to be in awe of him, whether because they are aware of the High King, or just have a sense of it, but she seems to be the most accepting of him being just another normal human being. (Then again, who is "normal" amongst her peers of choice?)

And Asim. Asim's brain. I've said before it before, but I adore when you crawl around in his head.

I'm sure there's much more I could cover, but my brain is foggy, so I'll just wrap on a question: How can Peter/Camel be a OTP if it's an unrequited love? Since you ship it, there must be an eventual reciprocation of Peter's feelings, right? Or is the love forever doomed, at least for Peter, in this lifetime? Oh the angst!!

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much. I hope you are feeling better!

Well, you've hit on the one thing that I'd always wanted to accomplish with the friendship between Mary and Peter -- that she is very accepting of him as just Peter, and nothing else. There's actually a line in my head to that effect for a few years from now. They are, it is true, sometimes envious of one another -- Mary doesn't understand why everyone holds him such regard and now he's envious that Aslan is communicating with her (sort of) but not to him, or at least in not so direct a way. When she finally steps out of the ME ME orbit, they do find a place of mutual... misery? sympathy, I suppose. They both are terrible at what Peter is trying to do, Mary knows what it is to fail, whereas Peter doesn't, and they both really fear (without justification) losing Digory's good opinion.

As for the camel OTP it is a very tragic love affair. And just because I think it's MY OTP does not mean the characters agree, of course. It is TRAGIC. TRAGIC I tell you. Peter just doesn't understand the camel's FEELINGS. He's still hung up on Dalia. When it's really all about ungulates.

[min023.livejournal.com]

OMG, Peter and camels - love it!!!

Slightly more seriously, I love the touch in the chapter - you've gone across what could be fairly heavy ground pretty lightly, and still got the point across. The Lysistrata reference is a very interesting one that you've just slid in there - can't wait to see where you take it. It's reminded me of Mercedes Lackey's Heralds of Valdemar series, and particularly, one of the plotlines in Arrows of the Queen.

I was also quite fascinated by the interaction between the Major, Colonel Clark and First Officer Pole, and his clumsy handling of that conversation. I know you've previously said that the whole marriage/relationship thing is a complete mystery to Asim, but he also appears to be rubbish at deciphering parental concern. I found that really interesting, since he has been Mary's handler since she was quite young. Sure she's a unique case, but wrangling a child has certain common elements, regardless of the child. I'm guessing he's never really stood in loco parentis to Mary - has he always treated here as a mini-adult, or is it more a cultural thing, that a Muslim man is going to be hands-off with a woman not related to him?

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! Errr, yeah, hmmm. Good points about Asim. Let's see if I can back into this one. Mary did arrive in his life later and I think he has always treated her in a very hands off way. He didn't really direct her --he just followed and what her father thought is I think a lot different than the reality. Asim never had to deliver to Mary's father the, "oh, your daughter was involved in something involving convicts and circus lions." He never had to say "Well, this bad thing happened but all is well." If there was an incident involving circus lions and convicts, Asim and Mary would have handled it and really there would be nothing to report to her father. All would be fine and well.
Mary's father: "I see there was a bill for some goods at a spice stall in Istanbul?"
Asim: "Yes."
Mary's father: "Was there a problem?"
Asim: "No, not at all." When the reality was maybe armed bandits and escaped cobras. In Asim's mind, there was no problem. He's not lying, but he is selective and he is a spy who is pretty comfortable with non-disclosure.

I've not thought a lot about Mary's parents, except that they are dead and I think she has a brother somewhere.

I know that when I wrote it, what I was thinking of more was that as a parent, Tom would know more intuitively what Liz would be worried about. I need to be careful in making Asim clueless though because I do not think that a spy could be successful without some degree of emotional intelligence. Though, he is a different sort of spy -- not the one who manipulates people and seduces secrets from them, one way or another, but the sort of person who over hears, listens, and steals.

I've not read Lackey -- which is one of those things I need to remedy.

[(Anonymous)]

Formal review is on ff.net, but I wanted to say that I'm very glad you updated! It could not have come at a better time for me if you tried! The article about the albatrosses was fascinating, Great job!

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, didn't sign that, I forgot that my username doesn't come up since I don't have an LJ.
~LotL

[katharhino.livejournal.com]

YAY, Peter and Mary interacting! I completely agree with snitchnipped above, they seem to have a completely different dynamic than Peter and anyone else in the whole story. I again find it so bittersweet that war and the long, slow goodbye to Richard seems to be sapping some of Mary's characteristic vibrancy. I hope it's only temporary.

Also, Richard trying to cram in all the discovery and knowledge he can before it's too late, *SOB*

You have so many characters that it's always fun to return to a POV we haven't seen in a long while. It's like putting on different colored glasses, I guess. Asim's is so interesting and unique, like a very subtle hue that can't be duplicated.

Also like many others, I love Lucy/Aidan and would love to hear more about their background.
Aidan didn't come across as too Stu-ish to me. Very sweet and a little insecure, maybe? To be honest I'm not sure I'd write Lucy the same way you do, but I really adore your version anyway in all her atypical (for the youngest princess-type character)... um... I don't even know how to describe the quality. She's almost aggressively honest with a zest for life that's even intimidating. I love male/female role reversals so the relationship with Aidan is really fun.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much. I think Lucy is VERY intimidating myself. I think she's intimidating to write, it's intimidating to be inside her head, and I think that zeal, honesty, valiance, and exuberance would be very intimidating to be around. She would make a person see all the warty and knobby bits. She would love you in spite of and because of the warty and knobby bits, but still, you would know they were there and that she could see them. She's terrifying to me.

It's funny but there are plenty of people who don't like Mary precisely because of that vibrancy that comes across as obnoxious, aren't I clever, why doesn't the world revolve around me??? In my head, she's the go go, rock always rolling, object always in motion, and now she's stopped, hard, and it's not pretty or pleasant. Polly said Mary has growing up to do, and she does, and it has begun. It's not her story, though, as I said above, in the end, she's probably the only one at the very, the surviving point of view. Sniff. I've liked writing her and Peter in the same scene, for all that I've done it so little. The communicate well.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with the other posters about enjoying seeing the Lucy?Aidan relationship develop. I would really like to see his face when Lucy tells him about the stallion/mare bonding ceremony in the field in front of the herd!
But I think my favourite bit of the whole chapter was seeing Edmund and Morgan again. I love Morgan and the way you depict her. It was especially nice to see her and Edmund together and happy. And it was touching that Morgan, with all her Aspergian difficulties with human relationships, was the first person to contribute to Lucy and Aidan's bonding basket. That Narnian version of wedding presents is just wonderful by the way. I do wonder where Edmund and Morgan have stashed all their fur/feathers/hair/threads/dung presents. Do you put it in the Narnian equivalent of a china cabinet? I do hope you finish "Harold and Morgan" some day.
Looking forward to the Christmas chapter and Rat and Crow go to War.
ClaireI

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

I have a whole part of that bonding tradition with Edmund and Morgan already written. I just need to get there.

Aidan looked the accumulating pile of material. "So we have a pitchfork and broom from the Centaurs,sticks from the Beavers..."
"Very nice sticks," Lucy said.
"The set of tools from the Red Dwarf clans was very generous," Aidan replied. "What else?"
"There's the herd ritual, for the Horses, the Deer, and the others Talking Beasts."
"What do we have to do, run with the herd? Chase off a dumb wolf that attacks a foal?"
"No, this one is a mating ritual," Lucy finally said. "The female joins the herd when the male mates with her."
Aidan laughed. "That shouldn't be too difficult."
"See if you still say that after you have two score Deer, Horses, and Sheep watching you and Lucy in a field," Morgan injected.
"Watching? Outside?" Aidan asked, looking askance at his wife. "Lucy? Does Morgan mean..."
"I may have neglected to mention that one," Lucy admitted.
"And then there's the positioning," Edmund put it.
"We sent our regrets," Morgan said decisively. "There are limits to what I will do in front of other Narnians, and that was mine. But, if you are interested, I have a book with illustrations that might be helpful."

[lady_songsmith]

I tweeted but I don't think I reviewed, so I'll just repeat here: Whee! another chapter! And will we see the whole Lucy/Aiden relationship? I'm sort of intrigued by the way he and his seem so insecure about marrying into royalty even after he and Lucy are bonded human-style (at least that's what I took from the chapter, that they are married just not by every Narnian custom)

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reading and reviewing. I've not thought a lot about the marital customs in Archenland. Maybe they went and signed something at a registry? Something informal, I should think. This is one where his understanding is probably a little different from Narnian understanding. The different bonding ceremonies, like the ones tying Monarch to land, are not strictly necessary. It's just an expectation and everyone wants to get his or her say in. "Well, if you are going to bond the way the birds do, you'd better have something for the Centaurs too." It took Edmund and Morgan months to do them all. Thank you again. As I said, it really means a lot to me when I hear from the gang.

[adaese.livejournal.com]

Yay for new chapter. And for the record, I was in Oxford on Friday, just outside the Botanical Gardens, looked across the road towards Magdalen, and the first thing to hit my eye was a lion among the gargoyles and grotesques on the college wall. Naturally I thought of you!

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

I looked in vain for descriptions of the Botanical Gardens. I could find their location and nothing more. And there's a lion there?!! Oh my! Like the cat window at the museum! I wonder how long it's been there?

In other news, I ordered the Instructions for American Servicemen in Britain, 1942 through Amazon, so thank you so much for the tip. I love the description: "It is always impolite to criticize your hosts; it is militarily stupid to criticize your allies."

I also have Ruby and Mrs. Pevensie exchanging letters in advance of Christmas regarding "pudding" with Ruby thinking it's flavored gelatin, Jello (which WAS around and very popular during the war as you could do a custard/pudding filled pie with a single crust) (except you don't add suet to Jello, she concludes). Mrs. Pevensie of course means steamed pudding and not Jello at all.

thank you again!

[vialethe]

So I finally got to reading this - a bit late, but better than never, right?

Like pretty much everyone else, I giggled at the swans and their demonstration of proper nest defense, and also at Peter/camels.

And I'm SO EXCITED for Rat and Sword Go to War.

A few other thoughts:
1. I'm beginning to like Mary better (yes, I'm one of those who found her occasionally obnoxious in TSG), which kind of makes me sound like an awful person who only likes characters when they're suffering. I think a lot of it is the change in her though, the way she's being forced through awful circumstances to grow up some and take a harder look at the people around her.

2. Albatrosses! I did some research on them myself for a different fandom and always love seeing stuff about them and their dances and pair bonds. Definitely looking forward to seeing more of them next chapter.

3. One very interesting thing in this chapter was this fragment of conversation: "I never thought about why they did these things," Peter told him.

Richard grunted. "You never do, Peter. That's the problem."

That's both one of Peter's most endearing and most frustrating qualities, and I love the way you've expressed that over time with his observations to Richard.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! There are so many folks I've not heard from yet, so I doubly appreciate hearing from you! (Your 3 sentence fics have been AMAZING). I've not commented on all of them -- there have been too many, bu t they are wonderful.

Thanks for reading! I admit I just love the idea of the swans telling Aidan to put out his wings and Lucy prompting in a whisper, "Arms, dear. They mean Arms" and then this big, blonde soldier flapping his arms around and lunging at imaginary dumb foxes.

I'm glad you like Mary more. I've written about her above, so I won't repeat it here. You got it right though -- she is having to change and grow up, awful though it is. It isn't her story, and we won't get chapters and chapters of Mary angst and self realization. In fact... I don't think we'll see her again until 1946 now....

And YES, this is exactly Peter's problem -- or one of them. He just isn't designed for that intellectual curiosity as Edmund and Eustace are. He doesn't think the big thoughts. He's very here and now and he's smart enough to have smart people around him and to listen to them.

Anyway, thank you again.

Rth

[(Anonymous)]

Another great (2) chapter(s)! Sorry to be so late in commenting, but RL has been a bit hectic lately. I am, however, still reading and enjoying. The amount of research you put into this is amazing. I feel like I am learning as well as being entertained! I was glad to see more of Aiden and his many young relations, and look forward to learning more about them. I also loved seeing the little slice of Edmund, Morgan, and Jalur's little family unit.
Thanks,
J.Apple

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! It's lovely to hear from you again! I'm up to my eyeballs in Chapter 12 now and it's thoroughly daunting. And huge.

I hope that RL calms down for you and you can enjoy the holiday!