rthstewart | H&M and a Hoard of Bankers

This is superb, and I absolutely adore what you've done here. Sorry to hear about the surgery, and the pain, and all the general suckiness that seems to go with any sort of work in the mouth. But still, if this is what you can produce when you feel like crap, I really, really can't wait for the next update. ;-)

Thanks, Min! You asked about the other shoe dropping at the end of 5 in the review? Someone else mentioned something about this and now I'm wondering if I didn't make something clear or I dropped something that needs to be picked up? I intended Chapter 5 to end with the clear plan that Edmund and Morgan would be going back to the Lone Islands, that that Edmund would get training under cover because there was nothing else to be learned in Narnia, and that he had to figure out what the heck was going on with the (tedious subplot no one cares about) regarding the diversion of funds for anti-Narnian interests. Was there something else I missed? I know what I intended, but I'm not sure it was clear in the story? Thanks, lemme know either here or in an email

Which just goes to prove that I'm dopey without the excuse of meds :sheepish grin:. I re-read the story last night (which apparently I should have done _before_ I set fingers to keys), and I think I'd mashed chapters 4 and 5 together, along with trying to read too much in.

There was the general (unresolved?) strop between Susan and Ed, though that's partially crankiness with the circumstances, and maybe part wishfulness on Susan's part? Then I was thinking there was more to the Peter/Archenland/Lune thing than there probably is - part of this story arc, plus lashings of Horse and His Boy back story? Then I thought something very profound about Lucy, which I now can't remember, so it was obviously very not-important.

Now I think about it some more, there's not really anything important flapping in the breeze. Don't mind me - I've written too many business case/procurement documents lately - they're enough to make someone over-analyse everything : )

Thanks Min. You weren't 'the only one to say something and I think Autumnia is right that I should have had a summary.

I will say, as Autumnia points out below about the disguise and whether Edmund is recognized, this is not an especially tight story plot-wise. I junked the plot I had that would more neatly tie in with what has gone before and some of the things I suggested in BRD and that I'm working with in AW and in chapter 5 of H&M. Now, it is mostly about Edmund and Morgan and other characters I'm interested in playing with, and a dollop of worldbuilding, and that's where I'll keep the focus. Holding true to pattern, each chapter is drawing fewer reviews than the previous. I don't think I broke 20 on the last chapter and I'm not even close on this one -- there are one or two people who might weigh in. I've lost practically all of my earlier reviewers and most of the feedback is from relatively new readers. I had an incredibly demoralizing private response yesterday. I've accepted more or less the fact that there is something fundamentally skewy about me, this story, and readers. That being said, the ones I do hear from are nice and kind and enthusiastic and so thoughtful, so I'll finish it, because as

therck pointed out, a few of you both know where they ended up and are interested in how they got there.

Bah, humbug. I'd love to conjure some more for you if I could. I personally think the non-readers are missing out hugely, but that in no way helps with the (I'm sure) very discouraging feeling of not having what you've written be appreciated (that's not the right word, but I hope you get what I mean). Still, I'm like the rest of the hard core who really want to know how they got from here to there, so I'm hugely grateful you've decided to persevere

Meh. I'm fine. Well, I would be better without the pain killers and such from Oral Surgery Hour 5.5!!! I'm trying to work, sort of, but those around me aren't letting me do anything more substantive than look at dates on documents and it's time for another Vicodin. I'm hugely grateful for the motivated, interested engaged women who are along for the ride. It means the world to me that some of you are holding on and encouraging.

I like it! It's interesting to see Edmund so unsure of where he stands. He and Morgan aren't very good at telling each other the important things.

Thanks so much for writing!

Their communication is lousy. It's hard to write something so dysfunctional. There's lust and need and poor Morgan has a really hard time walking in someone else's shoes. She says nice things because that's what she thinks and feels and she really is just crazy about him, but it never even occurs to her that he might want to know certain important things. And, if she does think maybe he would want to know, she's insecure enough to think he won't want to be with her. I think maybe she sees what she would bring to the Alan Meryl joint venture but she does not see what she gives of value to Edmund and it's not as if he tells her.

Before I comment your latest chapter (which will take me some time):
for so long there was no update that I decided to re-read chapter 5. Only now it occured to me how similar is Morgan's situation here to Asim not-telling-Peter. That is - in both cases there was a problem of double loyalty. For some reason Edmund dealt more gracefully with Asim's case and Peter - with Morgan's...

Best,
Krystyna

I had not thought of this before but there are parallels. I'll need to think about that and if I want to tease something out about it when I get back to TSG. Thanks for the observation!

Hope you feel better soon hun! :D

thank you!

Hoards of Bankers is wwooonnnnderful! Thank you for giving us more of the Rats and Crows, and since FF.net only allows one review per chapter, I thought I'd pop over here and mention how much I also enjoyed Maeve. Brilliant sharp edges! I look forward to reading a bit more of her, and how Edmund could take her on.

Sorry to hear about massive oral surgery and pain.

And a small second PS: thank you for more definition of the colour of Linch skin. It's not irrelevant to my inner pictures of Banker Morgan and the House of Linch.

Thanks. I'm struggling a bit with Maeve in the same way that I so did not want to turn Morgan into the Womb of the Realm. One thing that was deliberate -- I did not want Maeve to say anything about how dishy High King Peter was. As I was meeting with some colleagues last week (all women) to discuss a joint project not one of us discussed 1) our relationships 2) the attractiveness of anyone in our meetings. And this is something I've started thinking about with regard to Alan Meryl's mother, the unfortunately named Gertrude. Oh gawd. OCs. I'm going on and on about OCs. But I do know about the Bechdel test and I considered it when I wrote the chapter with Susan and Lucy. I made the deliberate choice that they would not discuss how nice Caspian looks in his purple pants, or Tebbitt, or Lucy's concerns about Jack. Maybe other women are different, maybe younger women are different, but you know, us older women have got things to do and while we appreciate the eye candy as much as the next, we don't talk about boys much at all.

As for the Linch race, that had been head canon for a while, even if I never said it as you know I never describe characters' physically unless I have to. With Linch, I wanted to describe the Lone Islands equivalent of a New York Investment Banker, except I loved the idea of this single gold earring and ring, and green gem cuff links. He's a very natty dresser. I totally ship him and Susan.

Yep, I think I totally get Linch. Alpha male all the way, and is going to find satisfaction in what it earns him -- including emeralds, since they're green and Linchy. I'm glad Morgan's his daughter, 'cause my thornier side likes it when things don't all turn out exactly the way Alpha males like them to be.

And, yes, Maeve has more on her mind than how High King Peter looks. Thank goodness. That's one more thing that is so, so, SO admirable about Not My Children's Narnia: the possibility that adults might have other things on their minds than appearances (notwithstanding my comments about Linch, snigger).

>That's one more thing that is so, so, SO admirable about Not My Children's Narnia: the possibility that adults might have other things on their minds than appearances (notwithstanding my comments about Linch, snigger).
That's one of the main reasons for which I stay with Ruth's fan-fics (and why I comment them), though I abandoned nearly all the others. Reading for a hundredth time what someone said/felt about sb else's appearance can be a little boring. It's strange so few people - judging on what is available on ff.net - realize that.

Thanks! that's very nice to hear!

I know for a fact that by the time I have a chance to really review this chapter, so much time will have passed that a review will be largely irrelevant (potty-training, O Joy!). So I figured I'd at least drop in here and let you know that I read it (nice interlude to the potty-training, by-the-by, so thank you for that), and thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially Edmund's grappling with the difference in how is treated in the Lone Islands and how he is treated in Narnia, and how we get to see that he is not arrogant (in that way, anyway), but accustomed, by now, to being a king, and treated as such.

I'm glad you haven't abandoned Harold and Morgan forever!

Thanks! I really and truly appreciate every word I receive and I know how hard it is for you to get a moment!

Thanks so much!

It's been a great struggle to not read the story as soon as I saw the notification in my inbox -- sadly, work called and things have been so busy that only now is there time to sit back and enjoy more of Harold and Morgan.

Interesting visuals for the Director! For some reason, I could see him looking very much like a Pirate, what with the bejeweled cuffs and earring and bald head. I suspect he has the shrewdness as any self-respecting Pirate would have.

Just wanted to add something to your and

min023's comments about the other shoe dropping -- for me, it was clear that the other shoe dropping was when Peter and the others returned with their news from Peony, Lune and Archenland. I'm not sure you need to make it clearer but maybe some sort of "Previously, we learned..." type of introduction to Chapter 6 would help if the reader hadn't read the story in a long time?

And I hope you're feeling better! Oral surgery is never fun. Can you take anything to relieve the pain? Ice cream, perhaps?

For some reason, I could see him looking very much like a Pirate, what with the bejeweled cuffs and earring and bald head. I suspect he has the shrewdness as any self-respecting Pirate would have.
Up until last night, in his head, Edmund was describing him as looking like a pirate. I decided that was not sufficiently respectable and deleted it! But YES! He looks likes a Barbary pirate except really well dressed.

As for the not being recognized, I'd had a whole thing in my head where the director yells at Edmund to grow a beard, and I might still do this. There's probably some unwritten scene where the Four discuss whether Edmund would be recognized by most of the Bankers and Morgan's feeling is no. I'm toying with a whole bunch of different scenes in my head with Gertrude of Meryl and one of them involves her knowing who he is and calling him on it. This is the problem. I drastically scale back plot assuming no one really cares and I ended up filling it up with yet more dialog. Gah. I know how it ends. I just have to get there and I really am not anticipating more than 2 (ok, maybe 3) more chapters of this segment before we get to year 3, Jina, and ANGST.

He looks likes a Barbary pirate except really well dressed.

Pirate was the first choice that popped into my head; the other was Mr. Clean.

where the director yells at Edmund to grow a beard

I object to facial hair if all it does is for Edmund to think he looks manlier with it. (Unless it's to disguise the Monarch some more while he's still working at Linch.) But despite my own preference here, didn't you write that Ed grew one at some point? And that Morgan wasn't a fan of it either? I swear I read that somewhere though I can't seem to find that passage right now.

The beard bit is from HHB -- Edmund has one when he's in Archenland and Tashbaan. So I have him returning to Narnia from Tashbaan, and his in Cair Paravel long enough for Mogan to HATE it -- she complains about it in a flashback in AW during Leszi's farewell. He shaves it off before he comes back from Archenland after the siege.

l_a_r_m loves mustaches and such and I think she really considers it a personal failing that I have not included at least one. Well, Walker-Smythe has one. I loathe it all myself and so alas I fear the characters, to the extent they are channeling their author's preference, do not usually sport beards and mustaches. Which assumes I describe them at all, which I usually do not.

So happy to see more Harold and Morgan! I am very interested in the world you are building for Narrowhaven, especially in how different it is from Narnia while still technically being a part of it. And the whole point of it being full of people, instead of beasts - it must be very off putting for a Narnian. I thought Pierce was great, and of course Willa has made friends with Morgan's father! haha I am glad you made him perceptive enough to know Edmund's true identity. I like smart characters. And of course, Harold and Morgan themselves are wonderful.
Thanks a bunch!
And I'm leaving for the Oxford adventure tomorrow - I will do my best to get you some photos!)

J.Apple

CAT WINDOW!!! The DODO. The poor Igaunadon with the broken tail who is mounted like a Kangaroo! Also, you will some big old dinosaur footprints on the grounds that were found in Oxfordshire. It turns out that Eustace found them first but then he goes and DIES in a train crash where they will remain undiscovered for another 50 years or so. And I totally did not just write that.

Woot! Go Eustace : )

As I promised – some feedback from me.

King traveling somewhere incognito to look for knowledge hidden from him or abilities otherwise unavailable is one of probably the most popular and exploited motifs in literature, but for some reason people (including me) have never enough of that. Generally, there are three categories: fairy tales and some other literature mainly up to XVIII century – in which royal in diguise has no problems whatsoever and – while passing time among commoners – helps them, especially – brings justice; true stories and literature based on true stories – mainly XVIII and XIX century – similar to the first category in general impression it makes (very often written or used as part of propaganda), but with important „realistic” differences: royalty being somewhere incognito used it mainly to avoid etiquette, not – seriously pretend that they are commoners: they were usually traveling as aristocrats, with servants, and with little efford everybody could learn who they really are (see e.g. Count Falkenstein) – recognition could be avoided in towns and villages emperor/king was passing by, but not in a place where he was staying, which wasn’t bad, especially that in general opinion respect should be shown to the monarch no metter if he’s incognito or not; third category: mainly since XXth century – when literature is realistic (even naturalistic), but kings (with few exceptions) – not anymore, usually in fantasy books, with kings travelling alone or in small groups, unrecognised unless they announce their names themselves, but – unlike in fairy tales – with few „realistic” elements, e.g. growing beard to avoid recognition or having problems with some everyday activities.
Why do I write all this? To give you a base to compare and contrast with. And to infer.
Few conclusions from me: you don’t have to worry too much about making your story realistic, because the situation itself is not realistic (cf. category 2), but it is good to add some realistic aspects, at least to avoid writing a fairy tale (which your Narnia is not); moreover, it often serves as a comic relief. The whole point is not to give in to well-known „realistic” motifs, but to think what exactly would be logical in your world and in Edmund’s case in particular. You stated that he is able to make up a bad and gave reason for that. Now you have to think about everything else. The question is – does he remember anything from England? In chapter 5 words about going „back to school” rang a bell to him – but only rang a bell. Does he have some instincts inside from a commoner’s life? Even if he has, these are instincts of a child (which he was when became a king). So what is that neither king nor child does often or never at all? Off-hand I can think about money – maybe it changes now, but few decades ago no one would give big money to a child. And monarchs are well known for their disability to use money – that is: in small amounts, simply to pay for themselves; in this aspect I don’t think in Narnia it would be different – maybe even it would be stronger.

As to the problem of recognising Edmund – you were talking with Autumnia about growing a beard. I don’t think it’s necessary. Think about it: if you would meet a Queen of England – plainly dressed and with no assistance – in a shop, would you recognise her? You wouldn’t even look at her. If you would – you wouldn’t give her secong thought. If you would – this thought would be: „Hmm... Have I seen her somewhere before?”. People usually don’t recognise a person they don’t know well when meeting him/her in an unusual situation. Moreover: you know Queen of England from TV and newspapers. What about people from the Lone Islands? No TV. No photos. Some of them had a chance to see Edmund when he was visiting Lone Islands before – probably few years ago, for few seconds, from a distance, in a terrible crowd, in some kind of official uniform, surrounded by Narnians, which for sure where at least as interesting as a king. Before a time of photos the usual way to teach subjects how their monarch looks like where official portrets. But with what has been said about loyalty of the Lone Islands to the Crown, somehow I doubt that they hang in every house or even in every office. There is probably one in Governor’s House. In other words – Florian would recognise Edmund, also some of the people close to him – who had a chance to spend long time with monarchs when they were making official visits to the Lone Islands, but others could at most – like Pierce – deduce Edmund’s true identity from his behaviour, attitude of others towards him and general circumstances. But – if nothing spectacular will happen – only during first days of his stay. Later people will get used to him and won’t waste their time on analysing his behavior.
As to the Stanlehs – you have a choice there. All depands if you want them to find out who Edmund is or not. In first case – they're too used to Tisroc and it wouldn’t cross their minds that a monarch would condescend himself to work as a clerk. In second – they are cunning, suspicious and have good spies in Archenland (not only in Calormen). Take your choice.

And now I realised I have to go out. So – the rest sometime else.

Best,
Krystyna

There are some excellent points there. It had not occurred to me but you are right about the portraits -- given the anti-Narnia sentiment, monarchical portraits aren't going to be up in homes. Also that if most of their experience is with the Calormenes and others they don't even think that a monarch would condescend so low. He's filling a role the expect -- secretary/clerk and they are all at the top of the chain so to speak.

It also occurred to me that while I do try to ground the TSG story in more realism, here it is a lot more fantastical. That's even more so when I realize how much of plot I've tossed out. There is one character who will recognize him straight off. I did also have a line originally where the Director taunts Morgan for taking the King of Narnia as a lover. It didn't really fit and so I put it off camera.

This story started out light comedy but you can't seem to help putting in deep insights! LOL. Really lovely. I can't help but love Morgan, but also really enjoy the continuing development of Edmund's character. I KNOW people exactly like him: admirable, stubborn, brilliant yet sometimes completely clueless. I also like the Lone Islands worldbuilding, and the reversal in that Edmund is now on Morgan's home turf. IF she has one. (Maybe with the talking beasts?)

Thanks so much! having mucked so long in areas I know nothing about -- military, WW2 history, natural sciences, etc., we finally enter an environment I do know something about. I'm not a financial person (numbers! eek!) and I nearly failed college accounting. But, I do know these personality types really, really well -- the women in $1,000 suits who never, ever talk about boys and the men with the colognes, cuff links, and killer squash games who will crush your hand in handshake. I know those people who are smart and have that driving ambition and yes they might have had great schooling and country club memberships growing up, but to get to this level of career advancement, they've sacrificed everything for 90 hour work weeks. And in one sense, Edmund fits in well here. He's smart, hard working, prides the job well done over personal relational fulfillment (to a point) and he's going to learn handball rather than swordplay. And in my head canon, I do see Edmund as having a pretty low emotional intelligence and that's why, of all of them, he's better able to deal with what he left behind. Errr, yeah, time to go!

I just wanted to say that I read your new chapter, and I loved it ! I already left a review on ff.net, but I wanted to post something here too. Maybe I'm taking the habit to leave one in both places xD Well, we'll see how it goes in the future, but anyway, I don't think you mind. Maybe it can make up a little for the readers you lost ? Two reviews for the price of one, twice the pleasure ? ;-)

Anyway... I loved it. Edmund is so great, in here. Lost without his identity, his siblings, his usual marks. Lost about Morgan, because of what he learns about her. And still so much himself ! He will not let all of that bring him down.

Morgan : still love her :-) She is such a great character, and she seems to be growing more and more in depth every time you write about her ! I love her brother too. He cares about her deeply, and respect her. And he is a smart man. I hope Edmund and him will become friends, as much as they can in their situation.

Jina, Lady Willa, Swallowpad : loved them too. It is great to see them in a foreign place, with people not accustomed to Talking Beasts.

Your general description of the Lone Islands makes it real, we can really see it, and it's wonderful ! Everything, every place, every character, every detail !
I hope Morgan will be able to make Narnia known again amongst her people. I think she can be the one who will make some people rethink their opinion about a lot of things.

Oh, and what is this thing about Swallowpad and Linch kwnowing each other ? It just came back to me. Something about a fleet ?

And I am eager to see how Harold will fare at handball :-P (In handball ? With handball ? I don't know, can you tell me ? )

As for Harold and Morgan... someone help them ! They are both emotionnally disabled, it's a disaster xD You just love to torture them, admit it ! (I think I already said that on ff.net, but I'm saying it again here, where you can actually answer !) Ah well... they're so sweet.

I end it here. I think you got the general idea.

About your operation, I hope you're better, pain is no fun :-(

Thank you ;-)

Marie

Thanks so much! Somehow I missed this in the notifications! Thanks, Marie so much for responding, and twice! I'm slowly finishing the next chapter. The Lone Islands story is just so hard because it's all new characters, new world, and I really do not want it to drag on and on and on. I want to get everything back to Narnia. Handball, by the way, is a version of the very old games involving raquets and balls and played on indoor courts. I have an amusing thing going where Edmund is musing that he has fought and killed, he knows bow, swords, knives, and principles of warfare and combat. He has fought in tournaments and battles and nothing has prepared him for the savagery of a Hoard of Bankers on the handball court. I am making fun of male posturing, a bit, as among the male lawyers and bankers and business men I have known over the years, there is a real "type" here. Conversely, I'm writing a women's "sport" as well and it is equally competitive but in a much different way. I am mostly amusing myself and trying to advance the plot and get the heck out of the Lone Islands.

As for Harold and Morgan, I've now put brackets on the chapter -- it ends almost at the Two Hearts Day piece with Morgan being nice to him and I felt that needed the balance of Edmund doing something nice for Morgan, so it begins with something tender in the usual unusual way. for them.

Blearily, like drunken Satyrs, they wove their way back to her room, woolen wraps trailing behind them like a King’s ceremonial robe, which this definitely was not. Morgan fell into the bed and raising her legs, he was able to remove her slippers. Edmund tossed them far enough away that Morgan would not trip over them in the morning. The manoeuvre had the feel of old habit, which after so many weeks into the dreary Lone Island winter, it definitely was.

Edmund crawled in next to her. It was too much effort to remove her gown at this point. Morgan, like the other Bankers, slept wherever, whenever, and in whatever, at that moment when crushing fatigue could no longer be ignored. He had never heard of anyone keeping such long hours as the Lone Island Bankers during the winter shut in. The only things comparable were long, muddy soldiers’ marches to battlefields and sieges, and as seasoned as Edmund was in that regard, no engagement had ever lasted so long as this. And they were still weeks away from the Conclave.

He leaned back against the pillows and Morgan curled next to him and completed the domestic scene by yawning in his ear.

“Thank you,” she repeated. “Pierce used to put me to bed when I’d fall asleep over the Guild reports. It’s nicer when you do it.”

“I should hope,” Edmund replied, loosening the ties on her gown so she could sleep more comfortably. “And not unseemly, of course.”

“You are Harold,” Morgan said, wrapping her arm possessively over his chest. “Not father, brother, or Peter.”

H&M and a Hoard of Bankers

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

back to chapter 5

Re: back to chapter 5

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

from Krystyna

Re: from Krystyna

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

from Krystyna

from Krystyna II

Re: from Krystyna II

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject