rthstewart | H&M, Chapter 19

Not reading just yet because academia is kicking my butt, but I look forward to reading it next weekend even though I know I'm going to cry.

Thank you and good luck! I think I hear the thud of chapter fail, but I think that's to be expected. People don't really want to read it, I think. And I've been thinking of you as I've spent the last month deeply involved in veterinary drugs. Go figure. And I just had to wrestle specially compounded banana flavored Baytril in an oral suspension into my rabbit's mouth. Fortunately I am not bleeding, this time.

Edited 2012-10-14 00:44 (UTC)

Good old baytril. It's easier with dogs, since we have beef flavoured tablets, and well, most dogs will love them. But it could be worse! Cats are so very bad patients to drug. I hope your rabbit feels better soon, from whatever it was.

Eye infection, or something. It's finally clearing up. I'll tell you, emergency exotics animal hospitals are among the weirdest places on the planet. It's very strange sharing an ER with a blue tongued skink, a red tailed boa, an Amazon gray parrot, and assorted rodents and lagomorphs. SO WEIRD - especially when the parrots are talkative. In the ER. At 2 in the morning.

They are indeed very weird. I worked in one this past summer as a doctor's assistant and it took most of the summer to get used to the variety. I think a fancy chicken and a skunk were two of the more unusual ones. But we still get tons of puppies, dogs and cats. And parrots have a knack for talking most when it's least appreciated.

Even though it's wrenching to read, this is a really good chapter. I think you've done it justice. A review is coming, but I want to read it again (preferably without the tears) first. Like the General's name - very appropriate.

Thank you

Thrilled as I normally am to see you've posted another chapter, I was dreading this one. Thank you - well handled. And good to see Morgan overcoming her (quite reasonable!) fears like that.

Thank you

Hi Rth,

I've de-lurked a couple of times before, and I'm doing so again because there seem to be issues around the H&M stories...

First of all, I (and I suspect many others) read everything that you write. EVERYTHING. I read the H&M stories, and I read the little drabbles you post, and (always!!) The Stone Gryphon and its many parts. But within that - I (and I suspect many others...) do have preferences. And, well, I'm really really really sorry - I don't particularly like Banker Morgan. I find her annoying, boring (as a person, btw, not as a character), and not very likeable. I see and understand her worth and role as a character, but I don't LIKE her. Her social awkwardness is of the "nails against blackboard" type for me - and this is coming from someone who is a geek, who was a nerd most of her life, who goes to SFF conventions and lectures in them, who likes cosplay, and has friends on the non-neurotypical spectrum. Hell, I only learned (consciously, deliberately - it was never natural for me) to interact with people in a social setting in my late teens when I was drafted into the military (and that gives away which country I'm from, I believe...) and sort of had to learn.

And I still find Banker Morgan an unpleasant person to "be" around. Again - I see her worth as a character. I even understand why Edmund would be attracted to her, and I totally buy the interaction and chemistry between them. I just don't. like. her. And I think it may be a common reaction.

So when you write *about* her - about how Narnians see her, and how Edmund interacts with her, and how she has to do this, that, and the other - I enjoy reading that. When you delve into her head, or make her the focalizer/POV character I get really friggin' annoyed with her, and want this part to be *over* to I can get to reading about characters that I find interesting as people, not just as pieces in a narrative.

I'm really really sorry if this came out harsh or critical - it's not, really, I swear. I love your writing and will continue to ready every single thing you write. I also believe that you don't owe me or anyone to write characters in any way except the way you see them and want them to be. It's just that the H&M question seems to come up quite often, and I wanted to give you the perspective of a very (very!!) loyal reader on why these stories are, perhaps, not my favorite of your oeuvre...

Please do delete this comment if you find it inappropriate in tone or content, and if so - I apologize sincerely.

- Gillian (whoops, forgot to sign the above...)

It is wonderful to hear from you again, Gillian, even if I wish the circumstances were better. You were the one who had been very interested in Asim and dark chocolate which did find its way into AW by way of Hershey bars. I only delete the negative when it attacks someone other me. I'm a big girl and my reaction is my problem. I'm sorry Morgan is so irritating and isn't working for you. I nearly abandoned H&M after chapter 4 as I'd assumed most people felt as you did. Thank you for trying. Unfortunately, there's nothing really I can do for you except wrap up this arc -- it's barely another 8K words and then I move on to other things where hopefully I can recapture something lost -- though what happened after both Rat and Sword and the Avengers cross over gives me pretty significant pause as to whether that is possible. Thank you again.

Edited 2012-10-14 14:44 (UTC)

> things where hopefully I can recapture something lost -- though what happened after both Rat and Sword and the Avengers cross over gives me pretty significant pause as to whether that is possible.

Would you be at all willing to elaborate on that? Does the story just tug in a different direction now? I'm not trying to be demanding here, just genuinely curious about your creative process.

I've not responded here yet as I've been trying to sort through how I felt about it all. It's been a bad week or two. There's a particular story in the vein of Rat and Sword that is being updated frequently and it is so banal and so inaccurate and so popular it's making my eyes cross and beneath that, a deep sense of futility. My reaction is stupid; I know this.

I felt that some of my more recent work has been among my strongest -- Rat and Sword especially. The Avengers story, for all that was a silly AU crossover, had a one or two things that I thought were really strong. I felt the same way about I love not man the less. Yet, what I think is an objective assessment of work has apparently no relation to what draws or retains readers.

I am a terrible judge of what will resonate with readers and retain them and I feel more disconnected than ever. So, that's what I mean. I need to get the chapter up of H&M and close out this part of the arc, and then reassess (again).

>I felt that some of my more recent work has been among my
> strongest -- Rat and Sword especially. The Avengers story,
> for all that was a silly AU crossover, had a one or two things
> that I thought were really strong. I felt the same way about
> I love not man the less. Yet, what I think is an objective assessment
> of work has apparently no relation to what draws or retains readers.

When you feel like this somehow reflects poorly on the quality of your work, keep in mind that 50 Shades apparently draws readers. There's really no relationship with quality there.

I don't know what this "Rat and Sword"-lite story is so I can't go look at its comments, but I'm willing to bet they don't generate anywhere near as interesting a conversation as your chapters.

I agree that you should wrap up H&M chapter 20 and regroup. See how people respond to a new AW chapter. It does seem to gather more responses, and hopefully will start a positive feedback loop for you. And keep in mind that even one of the people here who said they didn't like Morgan said they saw her worth as a character and plausibility as a romantic interest for Edmund. Writing a character who is convincing even when disliked is a real accomplishment.

And I loved the Avengers bit.

I'm also trying to encourage you because I've had an absolutely wretched week myself where I've done more harm than good in several areas and appear completely unable to finish an article that's already overdue. So both of us are apparently in need of a nudge in the positive direction :-P

Well in that case, look for a new chapter for H&M in the next hour or so!

Yay! Now I really must finish that article so I can read the new chapter! (Finding my motivation wherever I can...)

Read the chapter. It wasn't your best, but it wasn't your worst either. I will leave a longer review when I don't have family in from out of the country.

doctor dolly

Thank you for giving it a try. I appreciate hearing from you. I'm sorry it didn't work for you. Good luck with the family visitors!

Now hold on just a minute here. I didn't say it didn't work - I said it wasn't your best. There's a definite difference. It was not necessarily what I was expecting. I was disappointed with everything upto the gryphon's leaving to pick up Morgan. After that, it was fabulous.

That having been said, Morgan is my favorite OC in Narnia fandom. Jalur is up there with sarcastic Black Dwarves that affectionately refer to their Kings and Spawn and Nancy. Morgan really, really, really needs to go to the Blue River Smithy. I'd give my eye teeth to see what happens with Brikit. On second thought, given Morgan's track record with sharp pointy objects, that might be a really bad idea.

I'm going to go beat my imagination into submission now. I'm supposed to be writing long instruments of torture for college students affectionately known as a midterm.

doctor dolly

Well, it totally worked for me (the chapter, despite the tragedy) and I am a total card-carrying member of the Banker Morgan fan club.

De gustibus non disputandum est.

Clio

Thank you

uff...

I cried pretty much all the way through that. I was angry at first when you cut away on Jina's scream, until I realized we were going to experience it the way all those left behind at Cair Paravel were. This, I think, was an inspired move. We all know what happened- it's been reference time and time again in this sprawling (in the best way) non-linear narrative you've constructed. With no suspense as to whether she lives or dies, describing her death in detail would have just been oppressively morbid. We already know it was painful, and the aftermath (Susan carrying the smaller bundle) drives the horror home effectively as it is. Showing the gory details when they add nothing to the reading experience does not make a story more "realistic" (an argument I've been having elsewhere), it just makes it more unpleasant and can even distract. The emotional impact here came from the long buildup of Jina's character, the bitter knowledge that she wasn't even going to go on the trip originally, and the reactions of all who knew her.

I don't remember if we've seen Eirene after this point, so that suspense was effective, as was keeping it relatively distant so as not to overshadow the major points- Jina's death, and Morgan's story.

This drives home Morgan's true dedication to Narnia and all Narnians, and beautifully illustrates her distance from her (former) countrymen. The ship captain doesn't come off as evil so much as just baffled and unsurprisingly (if disappointingly) ignorant. Edmund's joy in her return amongst the sadness serves to further enhance our view of their relationship. Morgan on the ship is her at her most irritating (note that I usually do *not* find her irritating at all) and inspiring. And as usual you managed to tie a difficult interaction to animal characteristics (it's too bad no more socially sensitive animal was suitable, but they all got it done).

I see you're less confident of this chapter than usual, but I feel that you really found an effective solution to a very difficult writing bind. I did *just* finish reading this minutes ago, but this is my immediate reaction. I'm looking forward to chapter 20, and just as happy that you split it because I'd probably be overloaded getting them both at once.

Thank you. I had a lot of of head canon and I'll just leave it on the roadside. Briefly I did experiment with different povs and while I'm never succinct I also am not an angst-writer and so pulling away from the shock and grief I thought made sense. I had done a lot of research into snake venom and it can be gruesome. I did see it as heroic for a soft, klutzy accountant. Others obviously disagree with a lot of this, clear both in what has been said and the deafening silence of what is not said. Grief does weird and terrible things to your brain, individuals react very differently to it. Unquestionably the strangest, most socially inappropriate conversations of my entire life have occurred when there was a dead body in the room. I'm not going to assume that anyone is behaving at their most emotionally intelligent.

That's all, I guess. Thank you. Your nice comments came at a particularly welcome time!

I've "reviewed" the chapter elsewhere (on fanfiction.net -- yes! I'm a Vole!) and repeat -- I thought it was a terrific and (as always) very generous chapter -- so full of ideas, like the whole stone Gryphon insights and substory. (I am going to be rethinking that whole SG story now, looking for the parallel!)

I thought the shifting points of view worked very well, and I was especially impressed with the working of the Wing -- the commands, the way it functioned, and also with the way the Four swung into action without speaking, almost. And I went off to read Chapter 20 of TQSiT, as well, and got yet another view.

Also, self-interestedly, I'm looking to learn from it how to write about terrible events movingly, but not putting the reader through all the brutal details.

(I am also a great admirer of Morgan -- I like her very much indeed.)

Thank you

> Also, self-interestedly, I'm looking to learn from it how to write about terrible events movingly, but not putting the reader through all the brutal details

Yes! So many writers seem to compensate for building deeply resonant emotion by overwhelming the reader with some form of brutality or gory detail.

I like it-- I like all the Narnia fics. I don't read the crossovers because I don't like Narnia to crossover with anything except Doctor Who (I love left-behind-Susan/Doctor as a pairing), but I don't go off at people for writing them, either; I just don't read them.

I found your things and read them all at once-- it absorbed my brain for quite a while, to the distraction of other things, and I found something very new in Narnia as a result of reading these.

Morgan registers to me as having Asperger's Syndrome, except that since it's Narnia it's not like she can be diagnosed with it.

Thank you for reading. Yes, I have tried to write Morgan as high functioning Asperger's. Some do very well in relating with animals and of course it is often associated with superb concentration and quantitative skills. And Morgan does improve. There's a big difference in her behavior as the chapters have worn on, and on and on.

It's a lot to read and I thank you forgiving it a try and coming over here to drop by.

As someone with Asperger's that went undiagnosed for 21 years, it's nice to have that portrayal out there. Morgan is a character I can really relate to. I even found myself wishing I could have a companion like Jina to follow me around and help me out. (And I would *totally* hit Aslan with a candlestick if he took away my lover!)

anastigmatfic was the one who came upon the idea of the candlestick in Deny the Child and her observation that Morgan was not a fighter in the conventional sense. Thank you. This latest chapter was hard and the reaction to it and Morgan has been hard and I really appreciate you coming forward with your own story. I am glad that there is a character out there who connects with you.

Heartbreaking and wonderfully done. Love the POV choices. And Morgan is my hero. Like she said, I believe at Leszi's farewell, she speaks for those of us whose hearts feel faint, who aren't built for great deeds yet may perform them without ever recognizing their valor.

Thanks for the reminder that courage can be found without putting on a brave face. And that a Crow loves as fully and fiercely as a Hound.

~Syrena

Thank you, Syrena. I really appreciate it. That is the point. It's easy for us to wish to be the truly heroic, but we aren't all fit for going to battle (I know I could never do it) and there are those who fight in their own, smaller and quieter ways. There's something about that, I've just realized, in the connection to the WW2 battles on the Home Front -- the women who stayed behind and lived through the siege, so to speak. If/when I get back to AW, that's something to develop between Edmund and his mother, actually.

Sorry I have taken so long to respond to this chapter. I have been on holiday in Australia and had computer issues. I read it in the airport on the homeward journey.

I agree with many other readers that not seeing Jina's actual death was a plus. We really didn't need to see her agony. Although the bundle of little bodies besides Jina's was such a telling detail. And getting the reactions of a range of characters was very moving. You showed us an extended family or tight knit community who live and work at Cair Paravel, and each dealt with grief in their own way. Mr. Hoberry and Mrs. Furner taking care of each other, while they take care of everyone else was wonderful.

Also, the extra worldbuilding. Seeing more of the gryphons was fascinating. Especially the portrayal of the General. I thought her opinions about Aslan, were very realistic, given what she endured during the Winter.

Banker Morgan is one my favourite characters. She is strong and loving and endearing. And definitely very brave. As you have shown throughout your writing,there are many different kinds of courage.

Thanks again for this chapter.
ClaireI

Banker Morgan and Jina death a beautiful chapter as you explore the reaction to Jina death it was so thoughtfully written. A bitter sweet chapter as everyone comes to terms with a terrible loss particularly Morgan her courage flying with the general. How her and Edmund dealt with or not dealt with Jina death.

Great.

Thank you so much. Aren't you on MCH on fanfiction.net? It's lovely to hear from you!

Yup that me on Fanfic. In fact I may if I can change it to MCH here. I get so confused sometimes with different names on different sites.

Thank you so much! And now you can look at a happier chapter 20! Or mostly happier chapter. I really appreciate it. This chapter didn't do very well. I've seen commentary plummet again and I can't tell if the writing is wrong/off/bad or if it's just that some people skipped it because you know, I KILLED A DOG.

Morgan has her fans and detractors. I'm so glad she works for you. The Cair Paravel (who are really Vorkosigan House) staff have been a great joy to work with. And it has been fun to finally do something with the General. She's been around for a while.

Thank you again, so much.

Some people have narrow minds they are of course entitled to their views . But I find it very rude and narrow minded.

You keep on writing as exactly as you need to, and we can carry on reading as we want to.

H&M, Chapter 19

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Banker Morgan and Jina death

Re: Banker Morgan and Jina death

Re: Banker Morgan and Jina death

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People warning against you