And Conclave concludes with a bang

[rthstewart]

Chapter 11 is posted.  I've not heard from a number of usual readers about the last chapter and I have lots to say about visuals and such, but for now,  here it is, and I hope you'll share your thoughts.

I wanted to share this, courtesy of Syrena, La Lonja de la Seda de Valencia, the Silk Exchange in Valencia, which she thought was rather like the conference room and the Bankers' Counting House and I agree.

 



Thanks so much for being so supportive.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

>It also occurs to me that all of Narnia knew about Edmund and the witch, so how is it that the bankers don't seem to know about it. Rumors have this way of getting around, so I would have thought it would be known in the Islands.
I beg to differ. Fact that bankers of Lone Islands know nothing about creatures living in Narnia clearly indicates that there was no communication between these lands.

Krystyna

[min023.livejournal.com]

That's true, but the bankers have dealings with Tashbaan, and mad rumors have made their way into Calormen - case in point, Pierce's ruminations re power and status etc. in chapter 10. The bankers get around when seeing their clients, and hence my point about information (albeit sometimes wild and inaccurate) getting out there. Not saying that this type of 'rumor' would necessarily be given much credence, but still...

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

I've been watching this play by play, as I'm sort of wrestling with an exchange between Morgan and Sallowpad. There are so many elements to this. Morgan and Edmund do discuss some of this in Two Hearts Day and back in Narnia. So, Aslan is a Lion? Really a Lion? And you really did just come from nowhere? And you really defeated the Witch? In my head canon, the Bankers are a very practical group, with no particular spirituality and no tradition of magic. At the very least, they are going to assume there is some rational, non-supernatural explanation first. For them, Aslan isn't any more or less probable than Tash and the other Calormene gods, and while the Calormenes have a healthy respect for such things (at least the Tisroc seems to in HHB), to the Bankers it's all pretty fantastical. What I am wondering, and I've not read enough fan fic to know, is whether it really is commonly reported, 10 years later, that Edmund turned traitor. The older Beasts, those who were there when the Witch claimed Edmund at the camp, and the Beavers, they know/knew. But, is that really something that is going to be commonly told? Is that part of the oral tradition that fell out? I'm assuming it is commonly known that Edmund was her prisoner but not that he was traitor? I've sort of assumed that the mercy he shows is attributed first to his title as Just -- and not the "even a traitor may mend" personal history. Thoughts?

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm, food for thought. I think I would land in the camp that believes that no, it was not common knowledge that Edmund had betrayed his siblings. One could make the common argument that not everyone was an upstanding citizen prior to the Witch's fall (Tumnus, anyone?) If that's the case, even the mildest of traitors could be considered more or less victims of fear. Here comes a little boy deposited at their feet, saved by Aslan, and they quickly embraced him just as much as they did his siblings.

For that matter, it's possible that his own siblings don't know the extent of what Edmund ratted to Jadis:

"Here is your brother," he said, "and -- there is no need to talk to him about what is past."

If they don't know what's all happened, what he exactly said or did, who else did?

My overdue review... I've been caught up in work, and, actually, working on a fic for the exchange. Eep! But considering I've been reading so much, it's time to give back, even if it's been a decade since I've written anything of the sort.

Loved it! The drama! The choreographed entrance! The costumes! And of course, Edmund's grandest line! Why yes, I did punch the air and scream into a pillow when he revealed himself. Oh, how I love the theater.

It's fantastic you brought Susan in, for I admit that I don't have a grasp on what your Susan in Narnia is like as much as I do of her in TSG. And Susan and Edmund working together is dangerous and exciting -- I just love their relationship.

Thank you and congrats this chapter!

--Indil

[min023.livejournal.com]

Now that's an Interesting line of thought. When I started to dissect it a little more, it's obviously all laid out there in the Aslan's camp scene (and that's bookverse and movieverse, both) so the army knew, but that does sort-of beg the question as to what percentage of the Narnian population fought (as opposed to hiding/being turned to stone/refugee in Archenland/etc.). I've read quite a bit of fic that has the betrayal as an open secret, but your point about the rescue and not talking about what was past strikes me as equally legitimate. It's a fairly fine distinction, but certainly plausible. And ten years on, memories could well have blurred significantly. I buy the scenario that you've described from the head canon, and I certainly buy the premise of the Islanders looking to the rational to explain away the mystical.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely. And exaggeration goes both ways, too. Some would take the story of his betrayal and salvation, and the subsequent battle and blow it way out of proportion ("The boy king fell at Aslan's feet, begging - crying! - for mercy. And the Great Lion bade the clouds to part, and a beam of sun shone through, bathing the boy in forgiveness! And all was good).

Whereas others, like the Islanders, would say it was all a perfectly reasonable mistake. ("Apparently, there was a misunderstanding amongst the siblings, as is wont with siblings, you know, but it all got settled in the end. It was all just a matter of getting everyone's facts straight and on the same page.)

And with time, the story could get more exaggerated, or more... well, boring and forgettable.

--Indil

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

I really think that Aslan's line about no need to talk of the past is incredibly significant. Would they have discussed how she seduced/tricked him with the Turkish Delight and the promise of being King? I'm thinking, no. I don't think they would discuss the nature of the betrayal, I don't think they would know it. And yes, the Witch talks about him being a traitor and such but that is the army and how much would they want to keep thinking of Edmund as traitor when he breaks her wand and almost dies? Where I"m going with this (obviously) is that Edmund's head, during the Lone Islands departure, is very much on Seth Stanleh and family betrayals, and meting out a just punishment. Tender and loving farewells, not so much.

[min023.livejournal.com]

Well given that neither one is terribly capable of communicating their emotional state, to themselves or another, that makes a good bit of sense

[(Anonymous)]

These are not only Witch’s words. If I recall well, Mr Beaver said that Edmund betrayed his siblings and joined the Witch when they first appeared in Aslan’s camp.
But anyway, I stand in a position, that Edmund’s betrayal wasn’t known in the country afterwards. Few reasons:
- as already mentioned, Aslan said there’s no need to talk more about it; anyone who would elaborate on this subject would go against Aslan’s straight wish; I don’t suppose that creatures which were in the camp then would be willing to do so;
- the treason was in fact against his siblings, not Narnians; so it was for them to decide whether to keep resentment against Edmund or not;
- also mentioned – just afterwards Edmund was fighting against Witch, side by side with those creatures, which were earlier in Aslan’s camp; and he was nearly killed when doing so;
- then he was made a king by Aslan himself.
How many of veterans from Beruna would be willing to spread rumores about Edmund being a traitor? Especially that none of them new precisely what happened. And even if there would be someone to speak about it, he would have grave difficulties with finding someone to listen. Just try to immagine such a situation (we’re talking about a newly appointed, long awaited king):
„You know what? He was a traitor. He...”
„How dare you?! One word more and I’ll send for guards to arrest you for laesa maiestas!”
End of conversation.

Krystyna

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

This is indeed the direction I'm going. I can see arguments spinning in various ways, but I think this is the most plausible. Also, while I assume Sallowpad knows, as he is older and Knows Things, the other animals are younger and so would not know the story unless someone told it. Edmund so strongly acquitted himself at Beruna and since, I can construct an argument for the story not being well know. Thank you for helping me work through this!!