What a character

[rthstewart]

I want to put a placeholder out there regarding the recent H&M update.  The ever insightful Lupaza noted in her review the following:

I have to snicker at Pierce's horrified realisations, and the
reverse-kill-list. Definitely a Guy, though, and amusing as such. This isn't a
typical way for a character to endear themselves to me, but Pierce manages it.
He's sweet, in his own entirely-not-innocent way.

It's a bit disturbing to see how Pierce and his ilk see the Northerners, but I
suppose that is the point. The contrast between that and how he notes himself
thinking of Jina and the Rats "as someones rather some thing" is a nice and
clear show of time passing. Is it bad that I want to pat him on the head and
say, "Good boy"?

katharhino has just made a similar point in her review that these characters are sympathetic but still products of their environment. 

These are not a characterizations I think one sees in female-written fan fic very often -- at least not intentionally and not where we are supposed to like the character in some way.  Pierce is displaying some very traditional, very chauvinistic and (for me anyway) not very attractive character traits.  I did at least give him the self knowledge that he is aware of them and he's certainly not abusive.  Moreover, Maeve, who has thus far been written as this very hard, driven character is very much weakened by the fact that this man thinks she is pretty and desirable.  This is all deliberate on my part, I think it's very typical in mainstream media content, and how many of us know in real life women whose brains were sucked out of their heads once they started dating a guy?  Pierce's reflections of male pride in making a woman pregnant are uncomfortable reading but also very, very real.  I've got more to say on these characterizations, especially Maeve, in the next two chapters.

For now, I'll just say "Yeah I know and I wouldn't want to date him, either" and "Maeve, snap out of it!  Stop checking your brain at the door!"  When writing something so giganormous, with so many characters, I don't need to have one single character carry the burden of male enlightenment or feminist virtue.

Comments

[linneasr.livejournal.com]

Ooooo, rth, this one is very, very good. I'm going to have to think about it and re-read it before I review.

[katharhino.livejournal.com]

I didn't think it so coherently when I posted my review, but it's certainly true that in the fanfic I've read, male characters come almost exclusively in two types: Horrible, creepy, villainous and probably rapist Bad Guy, and unrealistically, inaccurately sensitive and caring wish-fulfillment Hero.

A male character who is not abusive or unpleasant, but still very unenlightened, is rare.

What I said sympathetic, just to clarify, I meant the strictest possible interpretation. I find it easy to understand your character's motivations and relate them to reality, without any of them being cardboard or moral symbols. So Maeve is sympathetic not in that I want to be her or even want to be friends with her (I probably don't) but in that I can see in your writing glimpses of why she is the way she is, and I can connect that to my own experiences and/or people I know. In fact at times you actually provide insight into human nature in general: so that's why a person might act like ____. SO WELL DONE.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much. And you really have wonderfully paraphrased what I've been playing with -- which is (trying) to create characters that make sense in the environment I've dropped them in, and trying to give them traits that make sense for them, even if it's not how you are or how I am. Or, as you say, people we would really want to hang out with. I'd mentioned before (and I think you did as well) that the world these characters occupy with its punishing work and ways of grinding the life out of people, is very like many professions and workplaces here. Those huge entering classes of MBAs and JDs in the 80s and 90s to New York consulting, accounting, and law firms, were filled with people like Pierce and Maeve. People like Alan Meryl are hugely valuable, so long as they can delegate to someone who knows what they are doing. Gertrude Meryl has, regrettably, some of the traits of women in management who have not had good mentoring opportunities -- they are tentative, not very confident in their skills, and risk averse. Constance is like the secretary or legal assistant who knows a whole lot more than anyone gives her credit for, but she didn't go to the "right" school or have the right wealthy background.

Anyway, thanks so much for reading and for seeing it and for sharing your thoughts with me!

[min023.livejournal.com]

So no cardboard cutouts here. It's very stereotypical, almost cliche, but it's undeniably something that happens in RL. Brava for the realism, even if it isn't necessarily very nice. Score another one for going there : )

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Going, going, GONE

[lady_songsmith]

Funny, I thought the reactions to getting her pregnant were really well done and endearing -- but then, to me, 'endearing' re: a fictional character means 'I want to read more about hir' not 'I want to have dinner with hir', so.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks! He's just SUCH a GUY

[sedri.livejournal.com]

It's definitely not common to see men written this way in fanfic, which is part of why I'm enjoying these stories so much - they feel very real. Pierce may not be someone women would idolise, but that's exactly why he holds his own here; we recognise him as a real person (insofar as that's possible in fiction). Maeve is a little less so, in my eyes, but that's probably because we haven't really seen through her eyes (or have we? I can't recall). Either way, it works very well, and I look forward to seeing more :)

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm working on it!

[(Anonymous)]

I think LJ lost my nice long comment I tried to write the other day, and unfortunately I'm in a rush or I'd try to recreate it--but basically, I wanted to let you know I absolutely loved Ch. 10, that I am terribly envious of your powers of characterization which make your OCs so wondrously real that I enjoy reading about them just as much as canon characters, and that I look forward to seeing how Pierce and Maeve's relationship evolves, if it does, after their initial de-evolution from Bankers to caveman and airhead. My unduly long digression-- about finding Pierce's possessive streak uncomfortably somewhat endearing, and sympathizing with Maeve as her neurons desert her in the face of onrushing hormones-- shall have to wait for another day.
Eagerly anticipating the next installment,
~Syrena

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Oh no, Syrena, it's here, but in the previous entry. I'm busy finishing 11 and haven't responded yet, other than to say, YES, WHAT SYRENA said. Also, I looked yesterday at the gorgeous pictures of the La Lonja de la Seda de Valencia and thought, YES YES and then got distracted looking at other European cliffside towns. I'll respond over there to your comment later tonight or may just start a new entry. THANK YOU