rthstewart (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rthstewart) wrote2010-11-17 10:53 pm
rthstewart) wrote2010-11-17 10:53 pm
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Theoretica? Are you watching? A follow up on military service issues
So, below is a response to some points made by anonymous reviewer Theoretica regarding how I'm handling getting Peter into the service. There are some pretty significant spoilers below -- though, in truth, anyone who has studied certain key events in WW2 can already see where this is going based upon Peter and Asim's conversation in Chapter 2 in the train station. So, I'll post here in the hope that Theoretica (or someone else with an in depth knowledge of enlistment, conscription, and military service in the UK in 1943) can help. If not, I'll rely on the Big Cat In The Machine -- Felus Et Machina
Theoretica? Are you watching? If so, I appreciate you pointing out the issues regarding Peter’s service. Like the educational system in the 1940s in the UK, the precise details of how this all works, including trying to track down regiments that no longer exist, and how precisely someone gets into them, and what-not, have been issues that I had a lot of difficulty establishing. When in doubt, I tend to get vague or just leave it unstated. My frustration with trying to decipher some of this was actually in my first profile, since deleted. I spent hours on some of these research points and they remained impenetrable.
It was one reason why I’d originally thought to not write this period at all. I wasn’t sure I had the skill and research time to pull it off. Yet, here I am.
Time and again I’ve been lucky and things have just worked out. The coincidences of the story have staggered me. And such was here once I realized I had to deal with Peter and the War. As you’ve probably gathered, I’ve decided to stick Peter, eventually, in Company D of the Ox & Bucks. Once I read Stephen Ambrose’s account of Pegasus Bridge and the 6th Airborne's efforts to keep the flank of the British landing at Sword Beach secure, I just HAD to because, you know, Pegasus, and Sword, and Horsa -gryphon gliders and all that. It was perfect. I also liked the bridge aspect of it, as that’s a sort of plot point later in 1947. I came away from reading Ambrose’s book really liking a number of the men in Company D. from Maj Howard, down and thought that Howard’s command style would suit the story and Peter as written – I’m actually foreshadowing that in the conversation they have on the train about the importance of the quality of command. I specifically had Howard in mind there.
I’d also noted in Ambrose’s book that there were a number of men from London in the Company, and between that and the Oxfordshire connection (Howard was formerly a member of the Oxfordshire police), I’d been thinking it was another example of a fit.
So, question is, can you direct me somewhere where I can figure out a way to make this true to the time and as accurate as possible for a fan fic, while still accomplishing the goal? I’ve just assumed because of his age and relative middle class background (in the story) that Peter would be your basic lowliest of the low NCO and there’s not enough time to get him through officer school. Also, this is one where I really walk the line – make the story interesting enough for Peter and the reader, but not diminishing the role of the real people. Is there some logical, mostly accurate way to get Peter from student, to Company D when he turns 17? Or, given how far I’ve been committed, do I just need to wave the magical paw and rely upon the Lion Ex Machina, so he ends up there?
Should you come here and wish to comment anonymously, I welcome it. I’ll change and tweak where I can. And it may be that the issue isn’t one that can be resolved, so I’ll just rely on Captain Exposition and put him there. But, if there’s a way to make it truer to the time, I shall try.
Thanks so much. I’ve not changed the hummingbirds yet (I was just looking at butterfly sightings in August in the Upper Thames Branch).
Theoretica? Are you watching? If so, I appreciate you pointing out the issues regarding Peter’s service. Like the educational system in the 1940s in the UK, the precise details of how this all works, including trying to track down regiments that no longer exist, and how precisely someone gets into them, and what-not, have been issues that I had a lot of difficulty establishing. When in doubt, I tend to get vague or just leave it unstated. My frustration with trying to decipher some of this was actually in my first profile, since deleted. I spent hours on some of these research points and they remained impenetrable.
It was one reason why I’d originally thought to not write this period at all. I wasn’t sure I had the skill and research time to pull it off. Yet, here I am.
Time and again I’ve been lucky and things have just worked out. The coincidences of the story have staggered me. And such was here once I realized I had to deal with Peter and the War. As you’ve probably gathered, I’ve decided to stick Peter, eventually, in Company D of the Ox & Bucks. Once I read Stephen Ambrose’s account of Pegasus Bridge and the 6th Airborne's efforts to keep the flank of the British landing at Sword Beach secure, I just HAD to because, you know, Pegasus, and Sword, and Horsa -gryphon gliders and all that. It was perfect. I also liked the bridge aspect of it, as that’s a sort of plot point later in 1947. I came away from reading Ambrose’s book really liking a number of the men in Company D. from Maj Howard, down and thought that Howard’s command style would suit the story and Peter as written – I’m actually foreshadowing that in the conversation they have on the train about the importance of the quality of command. I specifically had Howard in mind there.
I’d also noted in Ambrose’s book that there were a number of men from London in the Company, and between that and the Oxfordshire connection (Howard was formerly a member of the Oxfordshire police), I’d been thinking it was another example of a fit.
So, question is, can you direct me somewhere where I can figure out a way to make this true to the time and as accurate as possible for a fan fic, while still accomplishing the goal? I’ve just assumed because of his age and relative middle class background (in the story) that Peter would be your basic lowliest of the low NCO and there’s not enough time to get him through officer school. Also, this is one where I really walk the line – make the story interesting enough for Peter and the reader, but not diminishing the role of the real people. Is there some logical, mostly accurate way to get Peter from student, to Company D when he turns 17? Or, given how far I’ve been committed, do I just need to wave the magical paw and rely upon the Lion Ex Machina, so he ends up there?
Should you come here and wish to comment anonymously, I welcome it. I’ll change and tweak where I can. And it may be that the issue isn’t one that can be resolved, so I’ll just rely on Captain Exposition and put him there. But, if there’s a way to make it truer to the time, I shall try.
Thanks so much. I’ve not changed the hummingbirds yet (I was just looking at butterfly sightings in August in the Upper Thames Branch).
The problems of reality...
(Anonymous) 2010-11-19 12:52 am (UTC)(link)Conscription and democracy: the draft in France, Great Britain, and the United States (pp85-92)
Conscription in Britain, 1939-1964: the militarisation of a generation (you probably want 'The Men')
A few points as I understand it...
- No enlistment until 18: the conscription age. Sorry. Ignore or Leo ex machina? There was some lying about age.
- However, from 17 you could be a full member of the Home Guard (falling to 16 from late 1942 with parental consent). The HG sometimes trained with the regular army and many younger kids were expected to make themselves useful around school or jobs. The minimum school leaving age was 14 so many were working. Both Peter and Edmund would almost certainly have been members of their school's OTC (Officer Training Corps). All this means young men of talent could be fairly visible.
Might Peter impress a relevant officer before enlistment and be requested for special skills? Alternatively there could be a vacancy and the service assignment people decide it is a match with Peter; some attention was paid to requests about service placements, and slightly more for volunteers than conscripts. This might seem unlikely to contemporaries as the paras were at least initially recruited from existing commandos, but Peter does have an unusual skill set and a helping paw.
Other random bits:
- by 1943 the psychologists were putting people where they thought they would fit best and helping select about 1 in 20 from the 6 weeks basic training for officer training. The powers that be had by then twigged that simply putting all the upper class at the top wasn't the way to go and was pioneering in personnel assignment. However, the full 3 day selection event before being offered officer training was voluntary. Some people selected as potential officers were sent to Oxford (and other universities) for short courses which were 6 months long and about half military and half academic.
- being a student, except in medicine or by individual arrangement in nationally useful subjects, mostly scientific, was not an exemption from conscription.(Unless you had been studying for a major exam for over a year in which case up to 9 months deferment was possible.)
I hope this is of some use or interest,
Theoretica (who probably should register for an account with something!)
Re: The problems of reality...
It's funny -- I had initially assumed that Peter was someone who would be noticed in school and picked off but I thought I was stretching too far. It seemed more believable that he would sign up/show up and that winks and nudges from friends in higher places would get him where he needed/where I wanted him to be as a character. There were some really young men in Company D -- 18 or 19 according to the books, so I didn't think I was stretching that far in that regard either. They couldn't have been training that long....
So, thanks much. I think the only thing that isn't fixable is the age -- that's a flint, and I'm pissed because that was something I thought I had nailed down -- you know, I bet I read the drop in age in the Home Guard in 1943 with parental consent and I inferred that to mean drop in age of enlistment/conscription. Oh well. When the time comes, I'll make note of it in the A/N.
Don't be a stranger!